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Total disrespect! Williams axes Pappy and Quinn for skipping T&T U-20 camp

Trinidad and Tobago National Under-20 Team coach Brian Williams has refused to consider Shiva Boys Hindu College players Tyrel “Pappy” Emmanuel and Quinn Rodney for the Caribbean Cup finals, after rejecting their excuses for skipping an ongoing training camp in Guyana.

Emmanuel and Rodney were selected on Williams’ 20-man team, which left for Georgetown on Wednesday evening. But neither made the trip and both played for their schools on the same evening, as Shiva Boys lost 2-1 away to San Juan North Secondary.

Photo: Shiva Boys HC star Tyrel "Pappy" Emmanuel (centre) drives towards goal while St Mary's College midfielder Nathan Harte (airborne) makes a vain attempt at a block during 2015 SSFL action. (Courtesy Chevaughn Christopher/Wired868)
Photo: Shiva Boys HC star Tyrel “Pappy” Emmanuel (centre) drives towards goal while St Mary’s College midfielder Nathan Harte (airborne) makes a vain attempt at a block during 2015 SSFL action.
(Courtesy Chevaughn Christopher/Wired868)

Williams, a former Strike Squad standout, said the two talented players had dropped themselves as a result of their actions. He said he already informed TTFA president David John-Williams and technical director Muhammad Isa about his decision.

“I am very disappointed about this,” Williams told the TTFA Media. “Definitely these two players will not be eligible for selection for the CFU Final Round. I think this is a total disrespect to the national team by not turning up after being selected with travel and hotel arrangements already confirmed.

“I will not be including them in the selection for the final round in Curacao. These two players have dropped themselves.”

Williams, a W Connection youth team coach and former coach with Pro League team, United Petrotrin, confirmed that his technical staff informed all 20 players of their travel arrangements earlier in the week.

“We selected 20 players which I confirmed earlier this week,” said Williams. “Every player was spoken to and informed about the travel arrangements.”

However, Rodney simply did not turn up.

Photo: Shiva Boys HC attacker Quinn Rodney (right) takes on St Anthony's College defender Brent Joel during 2015 SSFL action in Westmoorings. (Courtesy Kerlon Orr/Wired868)
Photo: Shiva Boys HC attacker Quinn Rodney (right) takes on St Anthony’s College defender Brent Joel during 2015 SSFL action in Westmoorings.
(Courtesy Kerlon Orr/Wired868)

“Quinn Rodney did not show up at the airport,” said Williams. “I spoke to his mother and his school teacher. But I understand the mother said afterwards that she had no money to send with her son on the tour.

“I could not understand [that excuse] because we were covering all expenses.”

Williams said Emmanuel called on Wednesday afternoon, less than three hours before the flight, to say that his mother could not find his passport and he was also suffering chest pains.

But the national youth team coach rejected that excuse too.

“Pappy called me when I was on my way to the airport and said that his mother could not find his passport,” said Williams, “and due to his medical status with him still having some chest pains, he cannot make the trip.

“I asked him if he was playing in the evening for Shiva Boys and his response was: no coach I am not playing. But I found out after that he scored for Shiva Boys later that day.”

Photo: Shiva Boys midfielder Tyrel "Pappy" Emmanuel (right) dribbles past Presentation College (San Fernando) midfielder Kareem Riley during 2014 SSFL action. (Courtesy Allan V Crane/Wired868)
Photo: Shiva Boys midfielder Tyrel “Pappy” Emmanuel (right) dribbles past Presentation College (San Fernando) midfielder Kareem Riley during 2014 SSFL action.
(Courtesy Allan V Crane/Wired868)

Williams will name his final 23-man squad for the Caribbean finals on Tuesday. All selected players will be barred from playing in the Secondary Schools Football League (SSFL).

The Under-20s hope to have a second training camp in Panama before they head to Curacao before the CFU competition.

The young Soca Warriors edged Alpha United 2-1 on Friday evening in Georgetown. However, their opponents were a surprise since the team thought they would play two exhibition matches against the Guyana National Senior Team for their tour.

“There was an adjustment when we reached here because initially we were supposed to play the national teams,” said Williams. “But what was explained to us by [Guyana National Senior Team coach] Jamaal Shabazz when we arrived here is that he recently selected a pool of national players to prepare for the Caribbean Cup and right now they are into their preparations.

“So there was an arrangement where we would play the Alpha team, which has a few national players, and then play against an Elite All Star team on Sunday, which is also made up of several of their local-based national players.”

Photo: Trinidad and Tobago National Under-20 striker Nicholas Dillon (right) takes on St Lucia defender Melvin Doxilly during 2016 Caribbean Cup qualifying action at the Ato Boldon Stadium on 19 June 2016. The two teams played to a 1-1 draw. (Courtesy Chevaughn Christopher/Wired868)
Photo: Trinidad and Tobago National Under-20 striker Nicholas Dillon (right) takes on St Lucia defender Melvin Doxilly during 2016 Caribbean Cup qualifying action at the Ato Boldon Stadium on 19 June 2016.
The two teams played to a 1-1 draw.
(Courtesy Chevaughn Christopher/Wired868)

Team captain Jabari Mitchell and newcomer Moses Jaikeran got the goals against Alpha while striker Nicholas Dillon and left back Keston Julien also gave creditable efforts.

Williams said he was pleased with his team’s performance and happy to away from the distracting nature of the SSFL competition, which has led to regular absences from national team training sessions.

“I was really pleased with the way our boys handled the match. It was very important for us to come here and play as it helped us as a team to refocus on the task at hand.

“Because of the distraction of secondary schools football and the club football back home, we were not getting the chance to really have proper training sessions involving all of the players. And that was becoming a big concern for me as we get closer to the tournament.

“But coming here has allowed us to regroup and refocus and I am happy about that. We came in Wednesday and we had two good training sessions and the boys have been very positive so far. They put on a strong performance in the match which I felt was important for us.”

Photo: Trinidad and Tobago National Under-20 midfielder Micah Lansiquot (centre) takes on the Turks and Caicos defence during Caribbean Cup qualifying action at the Ato Boldon Stadium on 17 June 2016. T&T won 11-0. (Courtesy Chevaughn Christopher/Wired868)
Photo: Trinidad and Tobago National Under-20 midfielder Micah Lansiquot (centre) takes on the Turks and Caicos defence during Caribbean Cup qualifying action at the Ato Boldon Stadium on 17 June 2016.
T&T won 11-0.
(Courtesy Chevaughn Christopher/Wired868)

The National Under-20 Team close off their tour tomorrow with a warm-up match against a local all-star team.

(Trinidad and Tobago National Under-20 Team)

Goalkeepers: Jabari Brice (St Anthony’s College/San Juan Jabloteh), Denzil Smith (Shiva Boys HC);

Defenders: Tyrek Sampson (North East Stars), Kori Cupid (Presentation/W Connection), Isaiah Garcia (Shiva Boys/W Connection), Kierron Mason, Keston Julien (both Marabella Family Crisis Centre), Rondell Payne (Naparima College), Hakim Baird (North East Stars);

Midfielders: Jabari Mitchell (W Connection), Kareem Riley (Presentation/Central FC), Shane Sandy (Naparima/North East Stars), Micah Lansiquot (Mucurapo East/St Ann’s Rangers);

Forwards: Nicholas Dillon (Central FC), Kathon St Hillaire (St Anthony’s/St Ann’s Rangers), Josh Toussaint (St Ann’s Rangers), Chaz Burnett (Players Development Academy—USA), Moses Jaikeran (Harlem Strikers).

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  1. Chabeth ….. the level of ball at home is of a lower level that these kids who are playing in foreign universities They have better facilities are normally exposed to a higher standard of coaching etc. This is why they are preferred. Which is why when camps and other opps are arranged for local players. …its a good opportunity for invaluable exposure. The fact is if the kid is good enough he’ll play but if he isn’t he won’t. We’ve realistically looked for foreign help when our local core has not shown itself to be up to scratch and this has been a consistent shortcoming. Even the senior team when we recently went on tour with the majority local based we got our asses handed to us. Until local based level of training and/or performance improves we will be constantly looking at foreign prospects.

    • That wasn’t my point though.
      My point is if we’re making a big deal about local players rejecting national team duty on the principle of the matter, then the attitude should be the same towards the foreign based athletes.
      And the demands of foreign based athletes in terms of tour attendance shouldn’t be less than the demands on locally based athletes especially in light of the fact that the locally based athletes would be playing together more during practices etc and interacting with the coaches more etc. etc.

    • Well how can the demands be equal if the foreign based is foreign? They have to take a flight home and get a release from their institutions …the locales are right here which the demands on them to make the camp is less. If you wanna have the same demands on foreign players then the circumstances have to be the same …which it isnt. The demands become the same when everyone is at practice and then it just comes down to quality.

    • The tour to Guyana was foreign for everybody. If you demand that local kids miss school and ssfl matches, then the same demands could be made of the foreign based kids. Fair is fair.

    • So the distance from Trinidad to Guyana is the same as from the US to Guyana? Are the costs the same as well?

  2. What was the reason for the unavailability of the foreign based players that resulted in the late call up for Pappy and Quinn?

    • Chabeth, there was no late call for Pappy and Quinn. I’m just saying if there was.

    • Oh ok. Well still, what was the reason for the unavailability of the foreign based players who didn’t attend?

    • Cause if we’re going to criticise Pappy and Quinn for not going, then we should be fair and share criticism equally.

    • I don’t know if the TTFA even asked them come. There might have been one of two reasons. (1) Financial. (2) The US schools don’t allow you to miss more than a limited number of games.
      Coaches, with some justification, usually point to fact that leagues abroad tend to be faster and more intense and a bit closer to standard of international games.

    • Chabeth, the other players did not show up because they were not asked. Pappy and Quinn gave excuses which turned out to be untrue.

    • But let Pappy and Quinn think that way. If so and so not going then why should I? Fine. Don’t go. The world keeps on spinning.
      Hope they get where they are trying to go with that approach.

    • My stance is that any adult who advises those boys not to go for any of the reasons I saw raised in this thread is doing those boys a disservice and harming their careers.
      They made their choice. I think it was the wrong one. But good luck to them.

    • Ok. So are we condemning the untruth in the excuses given exclusively or are we condemning the principle of not responding positively to a national team call up?
      As for the possible reasons you listed:
      1. If it’s financial, then the ttfa should discourage coaches from carrying players who are definitively not going to be in the final squad. I know you said your understanding is that Pappy would have been in the squad, idk if the same was true for Quinn.
      2. Missing school matches… why should the local kids miss school matches just because there isn’t a rule about it like the Americans have.
      3. I really don’t understand how playing in a different league with a different team translates to a successful inclusion of foreign based players who don’t even play against the rest of the athletes who would make up this team.
      I’ve already said that I don’t think there’s any excuse for missing a national team call up in the original thread in this story. But that view and principle extend to everybody, not just the locally based athletes.

    • And having a tour without a whole bunch of players who will eventually be in the final squad is pointless.
      That was the same nonsense that happened with the men’s senior team earlier this year.

    • The squad was not officially announced yet so nobody would have made the team or otherwise. And every team in the world does tours without first team players. From Real Madrid to Brazil go down. They all think it is better than nothing and some would use it to look at wider pool of available talent.

    • Right. Well to your point about finances, i don’t think Real Madrid or Brazil’s financial situation is the same as the TTFA’s.
      And I’d also guess the coaches of those teams have greater familiarity with the first string players than locally based coaches here would have with school aged foreign based athletes.
      In any case, if we are talking about the principle of being available for national duty, I don’t think the rules should differ for locally based and foreign based athletes.
      If foreign athletes can be unavailable for whatever reason they have, then so too can locally based athletes
      Any other way I see as disrespectful to our locally based kids and as offering a preferential arrangement to the foreign based kids. Colonial mentality.

    • If we were to do that we would have to ignore most of our US school players. For the women’s team, some college players didn’t even get permission to play in World Cup qualifying matches. That’s how it is. That’s their rules.
      Whatever rules the local schools choose to have is up to them.
      We have a limited pool and it is up to the coach to decide whether he can do without the players who have such difficulties or not.
      I see nothing colonial in that at all.
      For parents who want to take children out of the program, then that is their choice. The national coach has to pick the best team at his disposal on any given day. And if a player doesn’t want to be selected or wants to choose when he plays and when he doesn’t, then it is up to the coach to decide whether he puts up with that.
      Pappy and Quinn had the opportunity to go while those US players didn’t. Mind you, those US and Canada-based kids find their money to pay fly for hours to come to Trinidad just to try out. And then the other excuse is that it is too difficult for the local based players to get to Couva.
      So I think those North America-based kids definitely showed their commitment to the cause already.
      I think Brian Williams made the right call. And I think the two boys and their advisors got it wrong.

    • If we were to do that we might spend more time, energy and resources in developing local talent instead of relying on foreign born/foreign based athletes not being good enough to play for their home teams.
      But if you don’t think having one set of rules for the kids who live in the first world country and a different set for the kids living in the third world country is colonial then ok, I do.
      But if we are all so concerned about our kids, and we’re fine with what the American system permits for its kids, then we can willingly adopt that instead of waiting for someone to stand over us with a big stick to enforce it.
      As it stands now, there is more leeway given to foreign based athletes than locally based athletes with respect to national team participation. And I say that based on the response to Pappy and Quinn not going while we have been mute on the foreign based athletes not going/ or being available.
      I don’t think that difference is fair to the locally based athletes.
      That’s really all my point is.

    • Chabeth, some of the US based players were born and developed in the local system and got scholarships. I don’t know that they all would have necessarily tried out for Canada or USA either.
      Noel Powder has played for us since U-17 level and he has been attached for a MLS team and is doing quite well.
      David Rudder’s son was in the National Under-17 pool. You mean we gonna doubt the patriotism of Mr Trini to the Bone? Lol.
      Also a US-born player tried out a few years ago and it didn’t work out. He then went on try out and eventually captained the US at a youth World Cup.
      Every situation is different.

    • Like I said, the foreign players do travel just to attend training. At their own expense. And they were not invited to this tour.
      Pappy and Quinn only had to inconvenience themselves by going to Guyana for five days with all expenses paid.

    • I didn’t say anything about anybody’s patriotism. I said greater leeway is given to foreign based athletes when it comes to national duty.
      They weren’t invited to a preparatory tour for a qualifying tournament? Why would they not be invited? They naturally and understandable miss most training sessions but then you don’t invite them to a tour? That just sounds so odd.
      In any case, either we don’t agree or you’re just not understanding the point I’m making about blasting Pappy and Quinn and no one else. Either way, we can call it a night on this. ?

    • Chabeth, the only players who turned down national duty were Pappy and Quinn. The system regarding foreign based players is another discussion altogether. But no foreign based players turned down the tour. Nor the did the 16 or 18 local based players who went.

  3. I honestly not sure why these kids need to be assured playing time in order to accept a national call. They have achieve nothing yet to demand this. If you tell me Levi asked for special treatment OK. I hope this ssfl title if won opens the door to them in Europe because I really can’t remember the a last time a President of any team call me asking about a kid destroying his school league. These lads should have taken the opportunity to play or be surrounded by more high level football simple.

  4. I am not disagreeing with you but they made a choice and let’s move on with their decision in the things you are saying but

  5. We have 17yr old boys competing against each other thinking that they’re all that then they come up against regional national teams and they get their asses kicked and you think playing with the nationsl team should not be a priority? How are they still going to improve if they don’t get that kind of exposure? When foreign clubs check for players are they gonna look at the high school they play for? Won’t they be looking to the national pool first? You learn things from experiences …if all experiences was positive you’d learn nothing. This aint just ball palos is life. Take the experiences and extract from it.

  6. People making these kids superstars before they even score an international goal or give a big performance away to Costa Rica or something.
    They have achieved nothing yet. If you all really love them, tell them to make working hard a habit and step out on the field with something to prove every day–even if it is a training session!

    • Lasana….I agree so much with this statement!! But the media (you included) are who help to make these boys ‘stars’. It’s not an indictment on the media but rather on our football

    • I write on Pappy and might say he had a top game or that he is a bright talent. If they and his handlers want to take that to believe he is the local Messi, I don’t see how the media can be blamed for that.
      Putting them on the back page or whatever can also boost their self esteem and make them want to achieve even more and make others want to be as good or better. Just depends on the individual.
      Ronaldinho said Messi was the best player in the world before he had even debuted for Barcelona. That was crazy hype. All depends on the boy and his support team to me.

    • Let me add that if I say Pappy proved today against San Juan North that he is the best midfielder since Latapy and should walk into the national team ahead of Hyland… Then I will take my licks for over hyping the boy.

  7. You know I will pound the TTFA when I think they deserve it. But a 17 year boy with no international caps turning down a tour because he doesn’t like the venue or he thinks he won’t make the final cut is madness to me.
    I have to question those boys decision making and ambition after that.
    Or is it that Brian Williams has to send his list of possible practice games and training schedules for Pappy and Quinn to approve?

  8. The U-17 players have to keep working and improving. Nothing handed to you. Look where Kenwyne Jones, Jan-Michael Williams and Julius James reached. You gotta keep working. Not wait for people to hand things for you.

  9. I never said that lasana what I said was national youth football aint worth shit they treat players like shit and they have no respect for them and when all is said and done they discard you without looking back where are the players of the 2001 u 17 team noew

  10. And if international youth football wasn’t worth shit, then European scouts wouldn’t attend. They would go to school games instead. That’s how I see it.
    I’m a fan of both boys and I’m disappointed by their decision.
    When they find $20,000 to go on trials in Europe, they are going to teams that already picked too. They have to show that European coach that they deserve inclusion.
    Why shouldn’t they have to show their worth here too? That should be practice. I’m disappointed they didn’t see it that way.
    They are young and I hope they learn from this.

  11. I haven’t read the comments so will have to scroll up now. But wanted to respond to that.
    Also at the last gold cup, the deadline for naming the squad came before the team left. So Hart selected squad but asked the standbys to remain with squad. Shahdon and Leston Paul, from my info, both chose to drop out.
    Then one or two of the Hoytes couldn’t make it. And that’s how Dwane James and I think Rundell Winchester or Kadeem Corbin got to go.

    • That’s slightly different from what the rumours are about these boys. Because Hart gave those guys an option…whereas this situation is assuming the boys weren’t going to be on the squad at all. They just got a call…summoned…and expected to act…Hart was honest with those guys and gave them an option

      That’s why I’m saying “IF”, B. Williams knew he wouldn’t be selecting those guys he should’ve given them an option.

      That’s only…”IF”

    • Kirwin true. But it does show that you never know when your opportunity would come.
      Look at Rashford. Van Gaal said he didn’t think he was ready and nobody planned to use him in first team. He only played because of an injury crisis.
      And look where he is now…

    • Meh hear you…the boy’s did handle it wrong.

      But if indeed staff had no plans for them and they were taking Pappy and Quinn to make up numbers, then let the youths play their school ball.

      If their was a chance of them getting in, out of respect, let the youths know if you work hard enough you’ll make it on to the squad and leave it up to them.
      Shouldn’t be that I call you and you must come…dialogue was important here.

    • So if Stephen Hart call them to play Grenada but they won’t play in the World Cup qualifier and Shiva playing Kirwin, they should say no?
      Or do they get to decide based on whether they like Grenada more than Guyana?
      Or if they think Hart more important?
      I’m trying to get the principle here.

    • Should Brian Williams send his potential friendly opponents for Pappy and Quinn to okay it? What about training schedules and so on?

    • Neither.

      I’m saying don’t use the men…

      Training and being around the senior team is a different experience altogether.

    • Use the men? Playing for your national team is being used?
      Then they shouldn’t go again.
      So Kirwin if Brian has a 20 man squad with eight foreign players who are unavailable, he should tour with 16?
      Every club and country in the world carries players who may not make final cut. Those players have to change coach’s mind.
      If they give up so easily then they won’t make it.

    • No, I’m saying give the men the choice, just like Hart did…Paul and Shahdon chose to drop and got left out.
      I’m saying give the men a choice rather than drop them and then victimize them…like is WICB owa ? Lol

    • Victimize? Hart had selected his final team. You think he didn’t have an idea who his team was long before?
      So when he calls up Foncette or Glenroy Samuel or Sean De Silva although they may not play, he victimizing them?!

    • That’s the point I trying to address repeatedly. It’s not giving it’s assuming or knowing you’re definitely you won’t be on the team.

      Wherever Quinn and Pappy got their info better had been damn good to make such a decision, it was irresponsible yes.
      But I’m saying if they definitely weren’t part of the setup give them the option to play the school game pr go Guyana…that’s just me.

    • Those examples are not comparable

    • They aren’t in the team because they dropped themselves.

    • Based on what? The team was not selected until a week or so AFTER the Guyana tour which they chose not to go. So exactly why do you think they were dropped BEFORE the actual team was selected Kirwin?

    • That’s why meh used if…but alyuh eh catching on…

    • Like I said Kirwin, I spoke to Brian and he denied that the players were not picked and that was consistent with his stance throughout.
      He called up Pappy although he did not make the last U-17 team. He kept him in team although he wasn’t attached with a Pro League team. He selected him in squad for earlier qualifying competition and only had to leave him due to a health issue.
      He publicly said he cannot wait for Pappy to recover him to bring him back into team. And then he picked him for international tour in Guyana.
      So tell me Kirwin. Was it DJW who said he wasn’t going to be picked then? Who has more authority than Brian Williams over the squad selection that told Pappy he wasn’t going to be picked?

  12. Kirwin Weston and Dion Sosa, I spoke to Brian Williams a week ago and he assured me that Pappy was going to make his final 20 man squad.
    And I don’t doubt him because that is consistent with his stance from the start.
    Brian always spoke of Pappy as a first team player. So it might be that someone gave the boys wrong info.

  13. exactly what the hell you gain by playing against a guyanese club and guyana national team is not like the tour was to brasil argentina or europe you ask anyone of the pllayers who went and they will tell you that they could not wait 2 get back 2 their school or club team in terms of value that tour had nothing to gain

  14. exactly what the hell you gain by playing against a guyanese club and guyana national team is not like the tour was to brasil argentina or europe you ask anyone of the pllayers who went and they will tell you that they could not wait 2 get back 2 their school or club team in terms of value that tour had nothing to gain

  15. If these two players harbour any ambitions to play at a professional level (and I know they do) …..for someone to say that the choice to turn down a national call up vs staying to play for the world renowned shiva boys high school team in ssfl liga is simply “a very stupid statement” …. and I’m not gonna take this as an opportunity to bash the boys …they made a choice not the end of the world and pretty sure they moved on. Seems like the guy bringing up this thread is the one either looking for closure or conspiracy … lol

  16. Ok Kirwin Weston…so “if” the coach knew they weren’t going to be a part of the squad but gave them a late call up it now gives them, unlike many others who were probably dying for a late call up, a second opportunity to be seen, a second opportunity to prove themselves. Ok, so stay and play in the SSFL and still lose to San Juan North? Or on the really positive side…”win SSFL”? MADNESS!!! UTTER MADNESS. There is not even a decision to make there. I don’t blame these two little boys though. I blame their advisors and I blame Shiva Boys coach! No right thinking coach would encourage a young player with national potential to decline a “late call”… And I say this with no reservations.

    • You’re not grasping what I’m saying.

      I’m considering that there’s no possibility of squeezing into the squad.

      I’m saying “IF”, being the key word here…that they both weren’t on the squad it’s useless calling them up. And wasteful in taking them to Guyana and then victimising them afterwards for their immaturity.
      The boy’s are inexperienced and immature of how to handle those situations.

      I’m saying “IF” the coach knew certainly that they weren’t going to be part of the squad he shouldn’t have taken them or given them a choice.
      It’s unethical to use the boys to make up numbers…unethical to use anyone as a matter of fact.

      Don’t mix up the priority with Shiva Boy’s and national team here.

    • Ok. So let’s be lil realistic here because clearly I’m missing something here. Why would he call them if they could in “no way” be on the squad?. Again, we are following a “personal” issue with the TTFA by even “ASSUMING” that the coach NEVER INTENDED TO USE THEM. And do we know that FOR SURE? Well since we know FOR SURE the coach never intended to use them…I rest my case. None of us know this for sure and none of us will ever know this for sure because they never went. Had they gone and not been used would have put a different light on things but they denied us the opportunity of ever knowing therefore it is unwise and unfair to ASSUME

    • And the only reason we assuming once again is because of “hear say”. Somebody say the coach was never going to use them… Typical. I rest my case.

    • That could get really complicated.

      I’ve heard 3 different versions aligned to why they didn’t go…but all based on them not being on the squad final squad…for sure.

      But I’ll rather say less and virtually concede in this discussion than say what I’ve heard publicly, lol

    • Would you select 2 players to go Guyana to make up numbers because you can’t get 2 other players you desire at the point in time ?

    • Yes I would… And what we should ask ourselves is “why those two”? Because after I’ve selected my squad…in the event of any misfortune I still have the two best out of the lot which were cut that I can use… Murphy’s Law right? So then go and give yourself that chance… The coach didn’t use you or didn’t need to use you… So be it…you’ll get your chance son… Instead of “yuh eh see is better yuh did stay and play College league” or “good ting dey stay and play college league”…

    • Ok…I catch your drift

      But I hear another talk of and relating to, lol.

      Don’t know what to believe, lol

    • Because watch… Was the coach compelled to use them because they got a “late call up”? No! But if he needed to, they denied themselves or rather their advisors denied them the opportunity. So wah we really telling them is…dey cyah get drop and that I hope does not turn out to be their downfall in their football career. We are teaching the youths the wrong thing. Take yuh drop like a man and dust yourself off and try again.

    • Ihu, but that’s way off my point.

      This situation is assuming that the boys were in fact not going to make the final cut.

      That’s why I’m using the word, “IF”.
      It’s not assuming this is an initial tryout for the team.

  17. Clearly y’all misinterpreted what I’m saying.

    What was the purpose of that game and tour in Guyana ?

    Read carefully what I wrote and hopefully you both will catch the point.

    My position is based on a “IF” the staff knew they both won’t be part of the squad…not if they were part of the setup or tussling for a spot.

  18. Well this gone way above my head and intellectual capacity coz Kirwin Weston real lose me there about an “ethical issue”… Gordon Pierre…point well taken…disappointment, rejection, late calls etc at that age is supposed to build “character”. I’m not saying it’s ok to disappoint young ppl but…”that’s life” and one would hope that with ppl like Dion Sosa around who I know, knows better will be the ones to mentor these youths on after disappointment and in so doing “build their character”. Dion your decision in this matter reflects your personal peeve with the TTFA and I do respect how you feel…don’t get me wrong…

  19. Kirwin Weston what madness i hearing here!! Dion Sosa is my friend and i know he goes off d deep end sometimes but u don’t join him!! That decision is an absolute foolish decision and foolish is not d word i want to really use and to try to talk ethical issue is more of the same if the boys got a late call to a professional trial their handlers would have sent them. I have seen players sent on trials who i know have NO CHANCE of being sign u know y i am not against it? The experience and it builds character these young men had a chance to engage d selection process don’t BS me about ethics and ttfa the persons in charge then are no the same ones now!!

  20. Dion, I agree with you to an extent.

    If it’s true that the staff knew these boy’s weren’t going to make the cut, then why call them ?

    That’s being spiteful and inconsiderate. Better they go short as they did.

    Yes, they handled the situation incorrectly. But these boys should not be punished for not accepting that call up especially seeing they had a game at Shiva. If they not going to be on the national team then Shiva us their focus.

    It’s not a matter of representing your country anymore if the coach knows you’re not going to be on the team. It’s now an ethical issue.

  21. We live and die and have to stand the consequences for the decisions that we make in life. People make mistakes and it is not the ttfa to be blamed. I agree they have the right to their choices but this is not the 1st time that players got late call ups and wouldn’t be the last but to be honest, to wear the national colours and represent the Republic of Trinidad and Tobago and the pride that comes with that has nothing to do with the TTFA but shows that the pride and honour of wearing that uniform is not there for these boys. So I am not angry with their decision but I will not be angry if they never get the opportunity to wear that uniform again.

  22. ok to end I support their choice just wished they had handled it better

  23. And the more you speak Dion Sosa it justifies my point. You are turning this into a TTFA issue, whilst I respect your views on the TTFA let’s not forget here that the issue at hand is “the decisions” they made. You said it yourself… “The CHOICE Pappy and Quinn to forfeit the Guyana tour” those were your words indicating that they made a “choice”… And I will continue to say it was a “dunce” choice… For want of a better word and whoever advised them was SELFISH!!!

  24. 1 of my players played u17 concacaf in honduras in 2015 got hurt returned home 4 ths injured his parents had 2 foot the bill for all his medical costs why people not studying that crap

    • Again Dion Sosa…I feel ur pain and I understand how you feel about this Akeem Adams issue in particular but we are talking about the “CHOICE” the young men and their advisors made… That’s what we’re talking about.

  25. what I am saying and it may offend people but playing national team aint worth shit cause when you get hurt they discard your ass on your return and you and your family/ school have 2 pick up the pieces

  26. This Dion Sosa…I have to admit, i dont see as a TTFA issue, this is not to say that I’m by any means defending the TTFA. Im just saying and i continue to say was a poor decision, not by the players becoz i dont believe at their age that they made this decision on their own but more so a selfish on the part of Shiva Boys football staff… I going dong wit dat!

  27. I like 2 hear people defend ttfa yes akeem adams represent tnt at all levels his dad died no 1 in ttfa ever called to say shit when he went into a depression they stop selecting him 1 certain coach said he was shit now and he was in international wilderness for over 2 yrs so what he got for playing for this so call country

  28. Zane Coker I couldn’t agree with you more…how many past players got late calls??? “This is your opportunity to grasp and go out there and prove that you’re worth your salt youth”. That’s what these youths should have been told… Listen even if one youth’s issue was financial, the same ppl around him, his teachers, neighbours whoever, should have made sure that this youth is not denied the opportunity man.

  29. well if ttfa so petty to do that it will be the country”s loss pappy has a very bright future in football

  30. Yes they will. Life goes on. I just hope their decision to put school football over country does not affect or blacklist them for future opportunities.

  31. I agree but we are dealing with young guys who probably did not handle the situation properly so they will learn from this experience and move on in life

  32. It was a late call up. Not saying that them not going is the issue but from the article it was said that one kid didn’t go because his mother had no money to send him with and the other just didn’t show up. If that was not the case then the media once again mislead the public. All I am saying is that the professional thing to do to decline the late call up would be to say so and not just don’t show up.

  33. zane what you talking about arrangements they were contacted the tues for the wed that is crap so. people need 2 ease off on the youths and focus on the real issue ttfa need 2 get their shit together

  34. But the tour wasn’t a one month tour. The little experience they would have gained on the tour would have also helped Shiva Boys. If they did not want to go on the tour then there are ways of doing so. Whether via email, phone call or otherwise, that would have been the professional thing to do…not have arrangements made for flights, accommodation etc and then not show up. And if I could remember they chose not to go on the tour and still lost the San Juan game anyway. There is no justifying these boys actions especially coming from a person of your status.

  35. Dion Sosa is my friend and Bass Cleff those are my exact thoughts go fight for ur pick score show up let d coaches look like fools!!

  36. Dion Sosa??? Nah…that’s not coming from you. Somebody hacked ur account my friend? Or did I miss sumn here? Dion under no circumstance should any young aspiring football pass up an opportunity to represent his country. One can only “assume” as some narrow minded Trinis would think that “they pick their squad already”. Then we should encourage the youths to go out there, give of their best… Let’s see what the coaches would do. If that’s really the case…let the coaches show themselves up then. This is one time I have to disagree with you Dion. Not from a man who comes down on youths for making stupid decisions. That for me was a stupid decision and for the coaches of Shiva Boys, a “SELFISH” decision.

  37. what I am saying is the team was already picked they only asked the players when they could not get who they wanted so that’s my point why hott up your head knowing that is failure

  38. I agree.. Winning the ssfl is a good goal but representing the national team, or trying to make the national team for World Cup qualifiers isn’t on the same level Dion. I know they have aspirations to play professionally as well, and i would assume more international scouts would see them if they made the international level.. Sportsmax helps the SSFL to an extent, but playing against international opposition should help raise their game a bit more as well…

  39. Dion Sosa let’s leave it at that because if winning d ssfl especially the quality of this one is high on d agenda of young players with professional aspirations it says a lot about their ambition and i guess their handlers as well!!

  40. Dion Sosa….I hear what you’re saying….but that’s not the right way. Forfeit a national team tour to play SSFL regardless of the reasons is wrong.

  41. it says much 2 going for a sure thing that 2 be sold a dream

  42. Dion Sosa that statement doesn’t say much for their talent!! Its illogical as well and also talks to their mental strength

  43. So Brian Jordan, you saw any school footballers at any nightclubs this weekend? Any with ambitions to be top student/athletes and national footballers?

  44. I think that’s a fake profile tbh

  45. It’s funny to me how these young guys seem to be wise about football decisions on their future but came with silly excuses. Guess the advice givers only helped them half way.





  48. Dats y we does can’t get a great player cause we give them up from young

  49. Why are your comments all in caps? …ummm please stop ….. 🙁


  51. ..That is correct and has always been so, unfortunately. But if a player (and his family) decide he is in, then he is in for ALL team activity ONCE SELECTED, bar some valid reason. A player can’t cherry pick which activities he will participate in..

  52. a lot of players have been injured on national duty and when they get back its the schools and clubs who have 2 spend their money to rehab those players not even a call or letter from ttfa to find out about the player

    • So they didn’t go because they were afraid they might get injured? And why did they lie?

    • no what I am saying is their are bigger issues that need 2 be resolved and we need 2 stop focusing on this incident cause they are not the 1st players 2 decide not 2 go on a national tour 4 whatever reason so let’s focus on ttfa getting their glass house in order before they start throwing stones at others

    • I think everybody has a responsibility here. The TTFA has a responsibility and the players have a responsibility.
      Two wrongs don’t make a right.

    • I agree but lasana you know there is a lot more to this story and at times people make a stand for the right reasons but may go about it in a wrong way

    • True. But who did they make a stand for? Themselves? I don’t see them helping anyone by not going on a tour, lying to the coach and keeping their reasons to themselves.
      But, like I said, I wish the boys well with Shiva Boys and the rest of their careers. They are talented and I hope one day they get to harness that talent.




  55. Sigh. Jennifer we talking about a particular situation. You talking about a “national attitude “. Different discussion altogether. There were consequences for the players’ choices..they were dropped from the team. What is being discussed now is the possible rationale behind their decisions. There…..you’re welcome.




  58. ms yearwood how do you know the players are the wrong doers we in tnt always quick 2 jump 2 conclusions not knowing all the relevants facts I can tell you ttfa had a very big part 2 play in this nonsense so before you start being judge jury and executioner get your info 1st







  61. In the few days since this piece came out it has morphed from a cut and dried assertion that the 2 players after being selected for a camp and agreeing to go, bailed at the last minute and provided what can only be described as frivolous excuses. They are being lambasted for disrespectful and unprofessional behaviour. From quite a few of the comments it seems that people closer to the situation believe that there were extenuating circumstances which forced the boys to lie. With all the stoic silence that has since ensued I can’t help wondering what level of bacchanal is underlying this whole episode. I mean it’s either they were under some form of duress or they felt lying was a better option than being forced to make the trip. Hopefully their backstory gets told if there is one. And I wish them well in their football careers.

  62. You dont know where your passport is, you were given a week’s notice, from the moment I am told I am being selected, I searching for my passport and getting ready. The thing these boys dont understand that playing for your National team is not only about pride today, it opens doors for you, College scholarships, look-in from clubs abroad and so on. The parents are so insular.

  63. Congratulations, I just hope that we dont hear that Williams is suddenly sacked a few months from now. You know it could happen, the parents might know somebody who know somebody etc. I APPLAUD this move.

  64. The same should have been done for the two party freaks…total disrespect !!!…well done coach!

  65. Sorry youngsters that’s what u both chosen don’t blame the coach.

  66. there are always 3 sides 2 a story you heard the coach/ ttfa side of the story so don’t be quick 2 jump 2 conclusions there is a lot more 2 this story which usually is when it comes 2 ttfa and their madness

  67. At the end of the day. Brian Williams is great one and we are lucky to have him here in Trinidad and Tobago football – I personally have tremendous respect for him. He’s made a decision and the players accept it, they respect him immensely. They will live with the consequences of what’s transpired. My hope is that they do get an education so that they may have viable life options…my sense is that they will. Soon enough we will be talking about some other issue pertaining to T&T football…

  68. I didn’t draw a conclusion that these kids were indisciplined.
    Just grossly disrespectful in this particular situation
    (Based on the information in the public domain at the moment. But there seems to be more…)

  69. Stipend? Lol! A “little passage money” maybe…

  70. Hmmm d way this conversation turning like they want a stipend to play!! And it seems big men encouraging that!!

  71. How many foreign based players is it? Are they all starters? Core members of the team?
    I never understand the point of time and expense for a tour that excludes important pieces of the team.

  72. They young and they’re maybe afraid of the consequences of not saying “listen we not going because of these reasons”…did they respond appropriately – NO. Are they these indisciplined kids that they are being portrayed to be – not at all.

    • These circumstances are symptomatic of the negative and misguided mindsets that is pervasive in our society. Mr. Sherwood says that these kids are not indisciplined. If so, there must be another word to describe their actions.

      So much more can be said about this scenario and it is not positive.

      I support Brian Williams totally for the stance he has taken.

  73. The foreign based players aren’t part of this tour? It isn’t mandatory?

  74. Well, then Pappy and company should have brought this to public attention earlier so we could have pushed the TTFA to take a teacher on tour with them.
    All the same, school is NOT why Pappy or Quinn said they stayed him.

  75. The kids in the States who will be part of this squad being asked to miss all of this class time? Do you think those parents would accede to that?

  76. But remember that is NOT what he told Brian Williams last week Anthony Sherwood. So that was not his excuse.

  77. I seem to recall in an article in wired where Pappy, (when confronted) indicated that he was not playing youth pro league because of school…

  78. I do not know these fellas from Adam but you really think they choose school over the tour? They are real special yute if they that.

  79. Now you’re making it seem like we just don’t want the children to get an education Tony. That isn’t fair.
    If they told the coach that they wanted to devote that time to studies, I’m sure many people would have accepted that.
    And of course we would expect that such a statement would be followed by confirmation from Shiva Boys that they are completely dedicated students who never miss class and are prompt with homework.

  80. They could respond to that yuh know, but doing so pits the school and their players against the other guys and for the sake of the younger ones coming up – it’s probably best they leave it alone. Pappy and Quinn are very young and maybe when the next cycle comes around they will be seen as more of an asset to the coach…it’s possible they may have just given up on this cycle? I just don’t see why they would have trained their socks off for all those many months and not reward themselves with “ah little small tour” to Guyana to play against the Guyanese National Team – it just doh make sense…maybe being in class made more sense – a strange concept to many in this country.

  81. But they lied to the coach Tony. No matter what they say now, that won’t change. So why should they get the benefit of the doubt?
    Essentially they were caught lying. The most we can do is wish them well in the future. But I don’t see how they can avoid some criticism.

    • You know my position on this, Lasana.

    • I am sure Molino, Joevin and Mekeil had a reason why they thought they should have been able to go to the boat party too.
      What about if someone can on and say: “If allyuh only knew why they went, allyuh wouldn’t criticise them…”
      What are we supposed to? Hush? Because of some mysterious reason that they don’t feel obliged to share?
      They lied. And they did not show up for a training camp. Those are facts.

  82. A truthful response to all of this would paint a very different picture as it pertains to those on the other side, revealing that side of the story would result in “them guys” being shown up a bit. The most telling example of the discipline that these kids possess is reflected in the fact that they will remain silent going forward – they will take the hammering and humiliation…speaking out and creating conflict will serve as a distraction…and no one benefits from that especially the coach.
    These two players are great kids and for the 5-6 months that they travelled to Couva from as far as Mayaro and Santa Flora 3 times weekly, their discipline and desire to play for T&T was never questioned…

  83. By the way, if the training camp was in Las Vegas, New York or Florida, those two players would have been the first to reach in Piarco Airport eh!

  84. I’m pretty sure when Machel Montano passed his O and A levels he was performing in carnival fetes during the preceding carnival season. It’s all about structure, time management, discipline, attitude and focus.

  85. Smh they give up national team to go play school football very smart Smh

  86. This is very elementary. The be the best of the best of the best. there’s hard work, sacrifices that have to be made, discipline, and attitude. It appears a lot of folks think it’s unattainable to juggle both school and high level sporting involvement at the same time. Backward me thinks. I know a few sportsmen and footballers who represented the country while preparing for O and A level exams and aced the exams. I agree with Lasana that those who are afraid of progress need to stay home with mammy and eat their cereal and milk & cookies and watch other youths their age who has the discipline and focus do their thing on TV.

  87. I do hope that the coach sticks to his decision. For too long being soft on our sports people because they are talented, and not pulling them up for the indiscipline, has resulted in the creation of primadonas who believe that they are greater than the team and even the sport.


  89. Good move. Kill one, scare a thousand

  90. Well done Brian. These youngsters need to understand that their decisions have consequences. My bigger concern is WHO is sitting down with these boys and getting them to understand respect, selflessness, pride in your country and commitment to your fellow players.
    Parents and school should be ashamed that they have not been a POSITIVE DECENT influence on their youngsters.
    This is a good example of why our country is in such a state.

    • But is anything going to be done? A player lying to his National coach about playing at home when he should be in camp? Parents are REAL PROBLEMS. NO EXAMPLE BEING SET FOR THESE YOUNGSTERS. Sports psychologists must be brought in to work with the players from the Under 15 level. They must also be part of a team of psychologists who have a HIGHLY QUALIFIED SUPERVISOR who reports to a PROPER Technical Director.
      We need a PROFESSIONAL SET UP.

    • The thing these boys dont understand that playing for your National team is not only about pride today, for modern sportsmen it is not so much about National pride etc, it opens doors for you, College scholarships, look-in from clubs abroad and so on. The parents are so insular.

  91. I agree with Bran Williams decisions, but I’m curious about Shiva’s boys School role in all of this. The principal of the School as well as Shiva Boys team have to let us know the truth, since I dont believe this was the boy’s own decision. I beleived they were put in a cromprisng postion and had to choose. How come the mothers ensured pssports and dicuments were ready and suddenly they were hedging, We need to know the truth

  92. Kelson Figaro Anthony Lopez Shaquille Tull have a read

  93. Do what you have to do Coach Williams. This is National duty involved. All the best!?

  94. How to throw away your future by choosing to be the big fish in a small pond. It will reflect bad on perspective colleges recruiting them if they go that way with their careers as well.

  95. Steupsss allyuh talking and must be can’t kick a lime who influenced the youth to stay n play ssfl sum ppl hv influence on players and I not vex if his mom hv no money to send him sometimes u go on trips n u mite want something they will not buy it I find allyuh should shut up ik I was in that position already Steupsss allyuh feel allyuh know #Asses

  96. That has been done in other administrations especially if exams are close or the trip is lengthy.

  97. BIG match versus Juve and Inter coach de Boer drops one of his key players for “unprofessional behaviour”. People like to talk and call for hard measures EXCEPT when it affects THEM. Drop all who can’t abide by the team code of behaviour..

  98. Every action has repercussions. To let anyone feel otherwise is to do them a disservice and to give them a false impression of what life is about.
    They have not been dropped for life, just for the upcoming tournament.
    Of course the team may not necessarily advance past the next tournament. So misfortune all around.

  99. Don’t judge from the surface. Trust me

  100. Gordon …. no player could undermine a coach unless he allows it. I don’t know the kid or how he train or interact with Brian. So I can’t just go with the masses. I’ve never mentioned the disciplinary aspect of things because it goes without a doubt. If he is as indisciplined as is being insinuated ….he shouldn’t be there anyway. Something that Bertil St Clair and company would never tolerate.

  101. Malik Johnson its not just two kids its a culture of bad discipline!! And ppl making these kids think they are better than they really are!! If you only know d problems u have coaching these youth not because of their talent level but because of their mentality!! Adults and to it by undermining d coach authority even at senior level d problem exist note coach hart first move as coach he got rid of d trouble makers men who up to day could make valuable contributions on d pitch but disruptive in the dressing room!!

  102. When I watch the level of development in T&T today and the quality of play from our national youth teams I would support and encourage our young athletes to take advantage of the time they are given on national duty. The quality of the SSFL is very poor at the moment so I cant understand a decision to choose that over National football. The SSFL may bring some short gratification only to be dismantled by the likes of Haiti, Jamaica and Panama in the youth age groups

  103. Pretty simple ….. the proper thing to do is for Brian and the parents to have a sit down. No way it as cut and dry as we think and talk it out …. but this aint no life and death situation as we making it out to be. Brian stance understood but I refuse to believe is just two ratchet kids with bad discipline.

  104. Sherdon Ifm Pierre i watching some of ur comments eh!! As one i looking at as a future leading sports administrator i only hearing weakness!!

    • Well that means I will get stronger later on… I jus looking at angles and exploring

      A few days ago people here was wondering where Damani went wrong now we could see where these guys going wrong… Papy is the best player in the team so instead of all.these couch commentators jus talking… maybe some of them should chat to the youngsters because the problem is attitude

    • Great new age philosophy but i am old story get d rid of them let life wake them up!! Damani is a whole different case and i wouldn’t get into that on social media but if u could tell ur coach u have chest pain and play a ssfl game same day u on real shit!! And d coaches involved by shiva too no coaching solidarity is always a fight!!

    • Well that’s where the problem lies with guidance and attitude something we have been battling for years…
      We had players who came.home from contracts because it was too cold..
      So then there must be a revamped in system because it will never end
      I want to hear solutions not highlighting then problem leave that for Baptiste and corneal

    • The solution is simple u know but d new age make it complex if all coaches stood together on discipline across d board things will begin to change pappy know he could blank d national and still play for shiva and b a star national!! D shiva coaching staff must b will chaining up d boys Judah gracia get drop u17 he brother when Jamaica with d u20 last time ain’t get play better u win d league yes see how they begging for levi now?? D ssfl games live on tv scouts will c u all kinds of crap

    • Well that’s where the experience guys comes in

  105. Wow. That was really disrespectful. If they or their parents didn’t want them to go to Guyana all they had to do was decline. Other offers to play for Trinidad might be forthcoming if they so talented. They probably figured visiting Guyana wasn’t an exciting prospect. That’s all well and good but don’t agree to go and then bail on the team after they made preparations for you. As a parent that is something I could never imagine doing. I don’t think money was the issue for one and for the other a missing passport and faking sick sounds like an excuse a primary school child might use. It sounds like these guys are really immature and the parents really irresponsible to have allowed that to happen.

  106. All I will say is this….. Parents and coach need to have a face to face with these young boys. The REAL REASON must be put in the table, dealth with and an understanding reached. They have already faced the consequences of their action. An opportunity for getting back on the team ought to be provided. I do not need the details. WHATEVER comes out of such a meeting, a statement from coach on the way forward, is good enough for me.

  107. Where are their parents? Where are their fathers? Whose guiding their careers? How does kids with such great talent be allowed to make critical decisions like these on their own? Youth and youthful folly needs the wisdom of adults to cease opportunities like this. I keep saying talent is not enough. . .discipline is required. The coach did the right thing.

  108. These youths may not understand they have to play for their national team before they can get a work permit to play in another country .

  109. Reading the comments … Anthony Sherwood ….. you know a little more about this scenario than we do? The lads touched base …. ?? Message if you prefer 🙂

  110. Quoting Johhny Cochrane in the OJ case. If you lie about the little things…

  111. I WILL criticise someone for lying. I think lying is wrong. Maybe that’s just me.

  112. I will not criticize them just for lying if i don’t know the whole truth and the whole situation behind the issue. In the coming days you will hear why things happened the way it happened. I thoroughly enjoyed this discussion i hope there is no hard feelings. Goodmorning.

  113. I don’t see why the onus is on anyone else. If they mind the public backlash, explain their side. If they don’t care, well then, carry on.

  114. Just to be clear Adrian Mufc Rampersad… The boys lied, got caught lying, still don’t want to tell the truth… But you think nobody should criticise them?

  115. What motivated their reasoning why don’t we want to know what made them lie and they did agree to go and then change their minds last minute. People are missing one of the facts here that these are young teenagers their decisions are not always of their own making. As we like to say everyone is entitled to their opinion doesn’t make it an intelligent one to be considered.

  116. Regardless of their reasoning (rightly or wrongly); at the end of the day, if you don’t want to go, say so! If you lie and get caught, I’m sorry but you are then unlikely to garner any public sympathy. Our society is full of sheep who are incapable of opening their mouths. They are just as bad (or worse) than the wolves who do the obvious damage.

  117. Yuh inno sports in trinidad is shit. Govt only want recognition when a gold medal, championship trophy or profit involved. Meem.blame them…they are entitled to a freedom of choice, be it national or club.

  118. People make mistakes we are only human and we are not perfect, I am not protesting i think they should be administered some form of punishment to set boundaries however i think there is more to the situation than we currently know why would two players suddenly make excuses and lie if they had agreed before to go it’s not like they went on a boat ride they played football for their school team maybe they felt reluctant to say that they preferred playing for their school team instead of the national team, maybe somebody threatened them to do otherwise, maybe they don’t like Guyana maybe they just lost interest in playing national football. None of us know why it happened so until an investigation is done you shouldn’t treat them like they are criminals they are young boys. What do we really know we are not in their minds we are not walking in their shoes the most we can do now is simply ask the question why did ya’ll lie. Another thing Mr Colin”you don’t have any sympathy” for the young men they don’t care trust me! they would prob curse you up if they saw what you wrote, what have you ever done for them they don’t owe you anything and you shouldn’t be so highly critical because for a young person to change their minds all of a sudden and even resort to lying there must be a reason. So often we sit behind our computers and are quick to criticize and talk negativity but do we know about the whole story.

    • They would probably curse up Colin if they saw him because he criticized them?
      That doesn’t sound good either.
      The public is offering opinion based on fact. And the fact is they were selected for a tour, agreed and then didn’t show.
      That’s why people are disappointed. Maybe there is more to the story.
      But the public is not making this whole thing up either. There really was a Guyana tour that they didn’t show for. And the reasons they gave the coach were not good enough.

    • Yes they are offering their opinion based on what they read which is the insubordination of two teenage boys and everyone is entitled to their opinion but then why don’t the public ask the question why would these boys change their minds all of a sudden and resort to lying to get out of a training camp which they agreed to attend we don’t know that bit of information we don’t know the facts and reasoning behind their decisions to make poor excuses and if we don’t know that then we must not lash out some persons may get angry but maybe just maybe someone should just say hey guys we know you lied and your excuses were poor so what’s really the reason. You know what maybe i’ll ask Quinn why he did it and let you all know latter today 🙂

    • The boys erred and the onus is on them to clear the air if they wish. But that responsibility lies with them and it is up to them to take it or not.
      Meanwhile the national team will carry on with the players they have.

    • Yes but what if clearing the air on the situation puts them in another harmful situation we have not begun to discover the many avenues that brought about such a behavior from the boys so maybe if we show them support not for their actions but support as human beings and show them that we are interested in their reason rather than burn them at the stake. But as you said the national team will carry on with the players they have and leave the issue just like that and not inquire or investigate the situation because that’s generally how we do things in this country be it sports,culture, politics and everyday life everybody flames at an issue target who they want to target and that is it we never look analyze situations thoroughly how do we know the boys decisions were totally in their control. Right now a man could be holding a gun to my head to type what he wants but ya’ll wouldn’t know.

    • Another way to look at it is in our society everybody wants a better life but also want someone else to do the work for them to get it.
      If they speak up about perceived injustices, things might improve. If they don’t speak up, things definitely WON’T improve.
      I’m not burning them to the stake. I wish them well with Shiva and wherever else they might play.
      I’m not going to Brian Williams and say: “somebody on Facebook thinks two young players might be having a rough time… Is it true?”
      That doesn’t make sense. Hopefully one of their advisors can find a solution for them. But they have clearly not done a good job so far.

    • Maybe Brian Williams should be smart enough to not only analyze his players on the pitch and start thinking about what these players go through on and off the pitch what are the psychological impact on these young minds what are they going through in life and believe me i know personally about clubs who really get know everything about their players and when there is a problem they just don’t punish players they analyze the situation and speak with the players they go the extra mile the extra mile is something that is missing. I would speak to Brian Williams but he’s mad right now so he doesn’t even want to analyze the situation cause he so mad he just say it’s a great disrespect i don’t care about the reason you lied i will just exclude you from the team and that is that i will not investigate I am a Trini coach i might even go all Ferguson on you and throw a boot at your face. Football has evolved you really have to pay more attention than just tactics and player abilities to name a few these are young men it’s not just about their football career its about their overall development into young men through sports punishment is not the only thing required and Mr Brian Williams has to be better than just be mad has he been taking advice from Courtney Browne.

  119. But think about it for a second Adrian Mufc Rampersad and Anthony Sherwood. How could the best option for young men be to lie to their coach? What are we doing to these kids if we let them feel that a combination of dishonesty and silence is the solution?

    • This is still being debated? They made a commitment, reneged and in at least one instance was caught outright in a lie as to their reason for doing so. I can’t speak to the role their guardians played in this but these young men don’t have my sympathy, especially after the recent foolishness with the senior team.

  120. They may have a reason for not explaining themselves.

    • There are always a million reasons to be silent. All seem reasonable. They never help the situation though.
      I know they are young men and I wish them well Anthony Sherwood. But I’d be lying if I said I think they handled this situation well.

    • Quinn is a very silent man lol i don’t think i ever heard him speak when he was playing for B/pore United. Only today he crossed my mind when B/pore United played W connection in a practice game I was like where Quinn when we need him i think he is immensely talented and this situation is just a bump in the road we’ll be hearing more about him

    • I’ve seen many, many talented players over the years. When Kerwin Jemmott was the age of those kids, he was starting alongside David Nakhid and Anthony Rougier in a Caribbean Cup final. Stern John already had a World Cup hattrick to his age…
      Talent is not enough. And to be identified for turning down your country is more than a bump in the road.
      But I do hope they find a way to overcome it.

    • Lasana Liburd as u said they are ‘young men’ and youth don’t always have the experience know how or capacity to make the wisest decisions. It’s easy to pass judgement when we are older with our own wisdom from
      Experience …but has anyone tried to sit with them and find out what’s going on? To listen give advice and guidance? Just asking …

    • Dawn, these boys don’t live alone in the forest somewhere. They have several adults in their lives from home to school to their clubs.
      I don’t know about the quality of that advice. Please be advised that at 18 years you are an adult and considered legally responsible for your decisions too.
      I always support athletes. But not to the point where they have no responsibility whatsoever for their decision making.
      Are you saying Dawn Foderingham that a 18 year old boy doesn’t know he shouldn’t tell untruths?

  121. Now get a chance to fully read the article …. lol …drop em …. move on …stupidity!

  122. There is more to these situations than most will ever know or even understand. These boys love playing for their country and for the better part of 5 or 6 months when this team started training they travelled from Mayaro and Santa Flora week in week out – 3 times per week. It’s expensive and it takes a toll on them both financially and in terms of their education. I cannot say whether or not the national team provides them with a reimbursement that makes it any easier to deal with the cost – that would be for someone else to answer, but we cannot assume that they can all afford it. Additionally, these kids at Shiva are all actually trying to attain an education and there is a unique system in place at that school to facilitate this ambition. Don’t chastise them because some of their challenges become unbearable…there is a massive difference between kids who may have just simply given up as opposed to two players who are now being labeled as undisciplined.

    • Well, we would have respected their honesty if they had said they rather stay in Trinidad and study or they are quitting the national team because it is too expensive to go. But they didn’t say that.
      If they do have some issue that isn’t in the public domain that is holding them back, then I’m always available to give an ear.
      Based on the information in the public domain, they are going to bear the stain of indiscipline.

    • I believe one of them put forth this very reason when this U20 team was first selected in response to why he was not playing with a pro league team…at 17 years of age it can be intimidating when you are made to feel indifferent because you’re not taking the path that everyone else has…but he stuck through it offering himself for national team service despite the feeling that his chances may have been compromised even before he started. There is nothing indisciplined about that…

    • I think if these boys have more to say then they should. Things never improve in silence.

    • That will lead to others asking questions of others…and to be honest, they will be blamed for those questions and chastised even more. These are massively disciplined young men and not many players who have been faced with their challenges would have stuck it out this long.

    • Unless those questions are raised the situation will remain the same. Everyone wants to go heaven. Nobody wants to risk death to get there.
      And the wheel keeps spinning…
      Not only will they suffer in silence. So will the next generation and the one after that. Let’s see in the end if they and T&T football is better off for their silence.

  123. this is not new!!! been this way since 19 how long!!!

  124. Maybe I am too old to understand this generation but ssfl is more important than national call up? There has to be a good reason for choosing school football as the article is suggesting. Very strange.

  125. I read where if the player is under 18 a parent has to sign for him to go. Is this true. What if the the parents of the two boys did not sign.

  126. School football over the national U20 team. Tells you where these fellas’ heads are.

  127. Who is the Coach of Shiva Boys? Seems that he has a role in guiding the young men to forego National duties to instead play for the school. What does he have to say about this Lasana Liburd? These young men suffering from a serious “big fish small pond” syndrome. A pity…. Coach Williams did the right thing.

  128. Reminds me of when the WICB sidelined Narine for Reaching 1 day late for a Training session…….

    Couldn’t their Flight be Postponed or was the school match that important? I sense a complete breakdown in communication or or blatant Disrespect to the Coach?

  129. Horse, I eh read this article yet eh… but this looking like a Late O’ Clock News kinda post. Say it ain’t so, Lasana Liburd lol

  130. Everybody have had their say. Those kids have a quality the we seem to overlook and that is loyalty. We can all say what we like and indeed we good at that. Which one of you are in a position to recommend them for a job or write a useful recommendation for them. None of you. They probably better off playing for the school rather than useless under 20.

    • So what about professionalism and commitment? If playing for the national team is such a hassle, a player can decline selection. The only players who can’t refuse selection are those in the police or army.
      Had these young men been straightforward in their dealings with the coach, things for them would have turned out much better. As it is, the Ras is absolutely right to deal with them in this fashion.

    • Damian R. Scott you expect youngsters to demonstrate the same level of thinking as an adult. More than that, they are subject to the jurisdiction of their parents who know what’s best for their children.

    • At that age, Messi was playing on a different continent to the one he was born in, had signed professional forms and was playing adult football.
      Pele was preparing to give his country their first World Cup title. Maradona was rated the best young player in the world after years of hitching rides to go across town to play with Boca.
      Dwight Yorke had just gotten signed in England after pretending he wasn’t freezing in the autumn and after years of leaving his family in tobago to sleep over by teammates, officials and administrators so he could try out for the national team.
      Gotta pay the cost to be tha boss. It isn’t easy.

    • As minors or young adults, with parents, surely they have people around to guide them. Surely they must know right from wrong by now. To excuse this shirking of responsibility as youthful indescretion lowers the efforts of the others in the team. Brian Williams is damn right to exclude them. Don’t make national representation a pappyshow …

    • So you don’t think having the nationsl U20 team on their resume will help them? How is loyalty being shown when you commit to your team then leave them hanging with silly reasons. You think if they do this in a university or a pro team they will get off that easy ….you’re extremely shortsighted if you’re not seeing the othe insinuations here.

    • That second “quality of loyalty” sentence still blowing mih mind.

    • Reynold , You can’t be serious . Are you reading what you writing . You just wanted conversation right ,have to be

  131. ..Hahahaha. Trini. The greatest show on earth. Meantime, 17-year old Pulisic helped USA cut our arse..

  132. Stop It Lasana. It have others way to pro ball. The national team is 1 way.

    • Well, good luck. And when a club decides to sign then, guess who has to authorise the transfer for them to get a contract?
      But I do hope they flourish. No publication has probably spoken about those boys and their talent more than wired868.

  133. Funny how resourceful these kids and their mammies are when they have to raise $20,000 or more to fly to Europe for trials without any idea of what to expect there.
    But 10 days in Georgetown? Nah. Too scary.

    • Wait footballers would have to spend 10 days away from school?. As a parent I would probably have declined to send my son though. That’s a lot of school to miss. The effort to get your school work back on track after that long absence would make me think twice. We treat school as priority number 1.

    • Rose-Marie that is definitely a solid point. And many other associations make an effort to send teachers with youth teams. That was done before too under a different administration.

    • Yes that would be a great idea. Right now if my son has to miss a couple days school because of a school track meet, he is responsible for getting notes, homework, make up tests etc. You have to be really focused and responsible to stay on top of your studies. Few boys would make the effort though. Missing school for some is a perk?

    • Lasana breds …people reacting to these U20 players missing school as if most of them go to school every day….

  134. They are playing the tournament in Curacao next month, i believe

  135. Loss of an opportunity… They will regret this. Country before anything fellas… Always

  136. Sherdon Ifm Pierre call people out like that isn’t necessary….. what they did wasn’t done in the right way by I don’t think they need to be ban…. a mother not having $$ to give to her child is a valid reason to me because let’s not close our eyes to the fact that we sent a senior team on a tour with $500…. the passport situation sounds like a excuse not to go….

    • What was the money for Calvin? To shop? Go on a boat ride? Because meals, accommodation and travel are all taken care of.
      But I’m glad he is safe home with mammy.
      Outside men 16 years old playing in Champions League. Here 18-year-olds too fragile for a week away from mammy with the national team in Guyana.

    • Lasana Liburd I understand what your saying but in this case it wasn’t to take up a pro contract it was a pre season tour….. And some parents are different now everything was taken care of but u never know if there could have bin a situation that may have come up that require him having $$….

    • I understand Calvin. And I understand about players going abroad and don’t want to drink fresh juice because their mammy used to strain the pulp out for them.
      Let them stay where they are safe. They will not make it as pros. Not tough enough.

    • Unless we accept the other possibility. That they just looked for a lame excuse to skip the tour.

    • It real sad that this yute eh have no family to give him some small money to go Guyana? The only place where $TT is King.

    • Yeah. Not an uncle or a cousin.
      Ask Jason Scotland about that Calvin. A taxi driver in San Juan would buy him football boots because he saw he had talent and couldn’t afford it.
      Nobody in Guaya or Mayaro would pay for Quinn? No school teacher could give him $200 to hold? Or Club Sando who he represents and is run by a man of means who regularly dips in his pocket to help young players?
      Steups. I am not good at swallowing nonsense. It sticks in my throat.

    • ..Hahahaha. Trini. The greatest show on earth. Meantime, 17-year old Pulisic helped USA cut our arse..

    • Hahaha. Ent! Pulisic mammy should have kept him home too for his safety. That would have helped Aubrey plenty!

    • Lasana Liburd we don’t know this kid and his family situation and that taxi driver that did what he did for Jason Scotland comes around once in a lifetime and am sure he is great fully to him for seeing something in him and doing that…. Well the other options u state when it comes to the teachers and the club he represents is also good but we don’t know if he or his family wanted to explore those options….. Am sorry they didn’t go because from most of your stories they are good players that look like they have a,future but lack guidance….. Maybe u can provide that to them because u look like a very stand up guy…

    • Lasana Liburd you seem real upset by this development…

    • I don’t like it Tony. But it is what it is. The young men made their decision and Brian Williams responded. And I agree with his response.
      I wish Pappy and Quinn well with their efforts for Shiva and beyond. But I won’t make excuses for that kind of behaviour.
      You realise that the TTFA can lose money put out for that trip too eh? Smh.

    • It real sad that yuh family get call up and yuh know d family situation and u eh help. That eh family. So I will say they did not ask family. So lets blame mammy is always her fault.

    • A plaster for every cut. A great man once told me a trini will give a good excuse every day for a week if it rains as to why he can’t reach to work or school. But how we don’t reach on the counter at the airport with the same. If is one thing I know when somebody wants something they get it a simple call to the coach explaining the situation would have taken care of that. As for the passport and medical. Any kid missing a passport for a trip would be devastated and using a medical excuse but then playing just a negative look. I wait to hear about when they personally have to go on trials to far countries with different languages. Wait for those stories

    • I’m disappointed personally in Quinn he is a Moruga boy and i know his family very well and we have a good relationship, i would have assisted my bro would have assisted, heck anyone in our community would have assisted if we knew the situation, i think they were poorly advised and i cant say i blame the coach 🙁

  137. They can still go to school and play for school Sherdon. But they will need to grow up to play for T&T.

  138. Think we need to put emotions aside because we can surely say these guys need some guidance… I understand they maybe wrong in this decision but we still need to educate them because we will have another group of Kerwyn Jemmott… Suspending or expelling a child from school is not making the child better

  139. Young men selected for a national team and hours before flight leaves they bring excuses that are even barely acceptable is a fail in every aspect. All in the name of a sweat…because they played for there school team. Dropped and available for selection next tournament is fully endorsed. What does the National Jersey mean now?

  140. I’d like to hear their side of the story but if they agreed and didnt show up …I got no problem with them being dropped.

  141. Shiva has no right to stop a student from representing the school if there is no disciplinary action against him. I don’t blame Hayden Ryan at all.

  142. SMH. WHat is Ryan’s (shiva Boys Coach) on this. Not the players alone should be punish. When you are getting paid to do something ,one must be responsible and not ignorant

  143. Isn’t the SSFL aware of footballers selected for national duty, who then become ineligible to play in league game? Will the school or SSFL be penalized?

  144. All selected players were always going to be barred from playing in SSFL or that’s a new policy in reaction to these two absences?
    There was no way to adjust the SSFL calendar to accommodate the needs of the national team?
    When exactly is this tournament?
    Another training camp? In Panama? When? How much school are we asking these kids to miss?

    • Some proactive sport bodies send retired school teachers with youth teams. In fact, while Lennox Watson was acting president I remember that Anthony Harford got two teachers who would travel and help players keep up with their school work.
      Naturally when time came the teachers were not paid. Not sure if we ever sorted out that bill.
      Some coaches ban players from the SSFL altogether. Brian is actually allowing them to play some. Depends on the coach.

    • Not following. Play some how? Article says those selected on Tuesday will be barred from SSFL.

    • But if he was allowing them before and not allowing them now, well then that answers my question. Thanks.

    • Latapy blocked his players too once he selected his final squad. You don’t want injuries and you want to have them totally focused on your squad.
      I’m sure he would have done the same even if Pappy and Quinn had gone to Guyana.

    • School must be a priority, the chances of becoming a well paid pro is slim. I think hearing big figures in the Premier League has shifted our thinking and obscured our minds. School is not simply education alone, the socialization etc prepares you to be an adult.

      I love the opportunities sport give, but.

    • I don’t think school is a valid reason for bailing on national duty in this particular case. (And it wasn’t the reason given in any case.)
      At the same time, I do think sport administrators and coaches need to be reasonable regarding the amount of school they ask students to miss.

    • I was the teacher on staff of a Anton Corneal coach u17 team and i think d concept has merit but must b manage well!!

  145. These youths have no concept of what is considered right behavior. Either the parents or the education system or both are failing them!

  146. Who’s educating these boys on being a professional, smh

  147. But how can you wanna blank the national team and rather represent in the schools league

  148. Because everyone here made sound decisions at their age. ?

  149. I feel you, yea, that’s a bit on their side as well

  150. It goes beyond that! How can you tell the HeadCoach that your passport missing and you have health issues that will prevent you from playing yet a few hours later you are running out to represent your high school???? The excuses given sound so contrived and childlike…. I’m disappointed truly at the two boys!

  151. Its a simple communication between the board of the school and of the national team (U20)

  152. Imagine that… men turning down the national team to play SSFL… no more pride to wear the red shirt… Wow

    • That’s the other thing we have to consider. Why is the national team something that is so diminished now that teenagers rather play school football?
      But I think Brian made a good decision for the sake of our national jersey.

    • Yes I agree with Brian on this one. But you’re right, growing up all I wanted to do was to play with the national team. Believe it or not I never considered the pro route but keep in mind we were had very limited options then.

    • Lasana Liburd What if these boys and other sport-persons don’t feel the spirit of true nationalism, the absence of which turns them off ? They would certainly remain in an environment in which they exercise greater control / feel more comfortable.
      When persons represent their country it must affect their minds the nature of national issues, values, conduct, as well as personnel management, coaches, etc, to whatever degree they perceive these and other factors. Sport-persons are also deeply emotional. 😉

    • I don’t think people dream of serving their country. Their first instinct is to this thing that they love and be rewarded for it with gratitude and maybe fame and money.
      I feel everything else comes after and that is fair once they put everything into their jobs.
      There is the other side, as Anthony Sherwood would agree, where the athletes must be given the tools they need and a good environment to accomplish their goals.
      You will never get the best out of them without that.
      If Pappy and Quinn couldn’t manage that sacrifice or didn’t think the rewards were worth it. Or they didn’t feel they could give any more in the conditions that exist…
      Well, good luck to them. Based on the info in the public domain, I’d have to go with Brian Williams.

    • Maybe thay just want to Play football and a sure line up for SSFL but not a guarantee to play for the national games.

  153. But that’s not being Professional

  154. So as I anticipated the Coach has basically said to hell with them!

  155. Brian Williams is absolutely right in my opinion. The national jersey is supposed to mean something.

  156. ..Allyuh see why it important to handle men when they want to boat ride? The fish rots from the head. If national players could just choose to abide or not abide by team discipline then where are we going? If you in you in. If you out you out. Brian right on this one..

  157. Damn… this is sad.. and the excuse the mother gave is so… *sighs* nah boy… who giving these fellaz advice boy????