Wired868 Wired868 for smart sport news and opinion
“The time has come to correct gross inaccuracies pertaining to the widespread claim that former prime minister of Trinidad and Tobago and also former political leader of the People’s National Movement (PNM) Mr Patrick Manning had coined the phrase ‘community leaders’.
“[…] Undisputed facts will clearly demonstrate that it was United National Congress (UNC) under the leadership of Mr Basdeo Panday that coined the phrase ‘community leaders’ when known gang leader, the late Sean Francis, contested the 12 July, 1999 Local Government Elections on a UNC ticket.”
The following Letter to the Editor, which seeks to attribute blame for the paternity of the questionable phrase ‘community leader,’ was submitted to Wired868 by former PNM general secretary and mayor of Arima, Ashton Ford:
(Copyright AFP 2014/Roberto Schmidt)
The time has come to correct gross inaccuracies pertaining to the widespread claim that former prime minister of Trinidad and Tobago and also former political leader of the People’s National Movement (PNM) Mr Patrick Manning had coined the phrase “community leaders.”
I also want to condemn those elements in the media who link the phrase “community leaders” and Mr Manning’s meeting with so-called gang leaders as the “PNM harbouring criminals.”
Undisputed facts will clearly demonstrate that it was the United National Congress (UNC) under the leadership of Mr Basdeo Panday that coined the phrase “community leaders” when known gang leader, the late Sean Francis, contested the 12 July, 1999 Local Government Elections on a UNC ticket.
Given Francis’ known background in the criminal world and considering the fact that he was a person of interest to the police, the media queried if his candidacy would have had a negative effect on his party.
Mr Panday was unmoved and indicated to the media that everybody deserves a second chance and he further described Francis as a community leader. Francis contested the San Juan/Caledonia seat for the UNC and lost to the PNM’s Harvey Borris.
Francis was murdered in April 2009 after being shot at least 50 times. He was 41.
(Copyright Trinidad Guardian)
I was taken aback when radio and television hosts on their morning programmes recently accused the PNM of harbouring criminals because of the meeting between Mr Manning and the so-called gang leaders [in 2002].
I would like to ask these commentators this question: Which approach constitutes harbouring criminals a) trying to make peace among warring gangs or b) giving known gang leaders an opportunity to be part of the governance of the country?
It is to be noted that Mr Manning was not alone in trying to bring peace in the Laventille/Morvant communities. Several efforts were made by NGOs, individuals and even Father Clyde Harvey, who organised peace marches, signing of treaties among gangs and meetings with so-called leaders aimed at curbing the violence in the districts.
So attributing these statements to Mr Manning and the PNM is grossly inaccurate.
It is not the only time when certain elements in the media and other individuals made unjustified claims against the PNM. People actually took the oath to speak the truth before the Commission of Inquiry into the 1990 events and told deliberate lies.
They claimed that Mr Manning, then the Opposition Leader, and the PNM never condemned the attempted coup. In response to that claim, I submitted newspaper clippings to the Commissioners providing proof that Mr Manning and Dr Lenny Saith, then Chairman of the PNM, had condemned the coup on at least three occasions.
I don’t know why some elements in the media insist on putting a spin, twisting the facts or attempting to rewrite the history of T&T when it comes to the PNM and national issues.
Only recently, the UNC did not support the government in Parliament on the Anti-Gang legislation despite the fact that when they were in government and presented the same legislation the PNM did not hesitate in supporting it.
It therefore becomes imperative for me to protect the legacy of the PNM and also to ensure that the work of the party in developing our beloved country is properly recorded.
In the circumstances, I would like the people who have been misleading the country for the past few days and casting aspersions on Mr Manning and the PNM on the crime problem to apologise to his family and the PNM as a whole.
(Copyright AFP 2016/Luis Acosta)
“[…] A true Gens de Arime, Raymond was loved and appreciated for his kind and generous spirit. “He Read more
“[…] Ever since she ran in 2015 on a leader-centric election marketing campaign that sold the virtues of Kamla The Read more
For some weeks this column had been focused on the good, the bad and the ugly of Carnival and its Read more
“[…] This feeling of always being uneducated influenced me when I became prime minister. There were always about 6,000 children Read more
“[…] Yes, Basdeo Panday was much kinder to certain individuals and organisations than PNM ever was or will be, but Read more
Trade unionist, actor, attorney at law, politician and Trinbagonian legend, Basdeo Panday has passed. He was well known for his Read more
And yours is she go bark at meh dog ah go ignore she kyat jammetry hyenasfrom d jungle ignorant just as all your sycophantz
Now the blame game ,it’s amazing how government forces was able to eradicate all the progressive movement of the 60s and 70s and can’t do nothing about the criminals now Serians ,Chineses and the black and Indians peasants that are killing each other for crumbs and spoils, laugable.
I wonder who ashton feel he could fool,who met with so called community leaders in a hotel in closed doors. To be a pnm community leader you most be a gangster,killer,thief,rapist,sell guns& be able to murder peopl, that is why all those youths trying to be community leaders and commiting these crimes to qualify. So ashton who you trying to fool.
I hate to see this blame game on either side of the fence in a cosmopolitan country where every creed and race should find an equal place in the land of the humming bird.
This country is a very difficulty nation to rule because of the two races that have the majority of people in our country namely africans and indians and the two party system in our country is not working due to discrimination ,racism and trival voting.
We will have to change this system of government and look to forge ahead with constitutional reform for the masses to have more say in running our country like a patriot front without any political party were the people would have to put country first before self and not any political party.
We are living in a different era and this system of government by the our first prime minister is outdated and old fashionioned and cannot life to stand up to scrutiny for the twenty-first century . As one people and one nation regardless of the colour of your skin, hair ,ethnicity or race we should all find an equal place in our country as one people under god and as mature individuals put a stop to this blame games on either side of the fence that is happening right now in our parliament and put country foremost before self.
That is one of the most sensible suggestions I’ve seen yet about our political future. If you can put more meat on that, you should send that idea to us as a Letter to the Editor.
If you’d like to, you can send mail to editor@wired868.com.
Thank you for your words of incouragement and support but i am a bit reluctant to add more because i have learnt a lesson from after i made the pivitol role for our country to achieve heritage of freedom from monarchy tô Republican status and up to this day i am not recognised for my invaluable contribution tô nation building benefitting the whole populace.
Nowadays the politicans steals your words of wisdom and philosophy for their own glorification and fame and up to this day i am not recognised and is treated worst than a convicted killers who lost all their appeals before the privy council and heard their death warrant read out and is saved by an injunction in the High court for a stay of execution and who you can still hear and read about but no body knows about me.
Rasheed I’m sorry that you were not publicly acknowledged. I’m sure the people who matter most to you know though.
If you do want to share your ideas, Wired868 is ready.
I have done a lot of community work for this country as a non politican without any Monetary rewards compered to other people as aldermen and senators who are only raping the economy of this country for doing absolutely nothing and that is not fair to me.
Rasheed in politics there are a lot of victims because of the party system and you must do as they want to survive
I have been suggesting for quite a while for each constituency to have independent candidates who reside in the constituency
5 – 10 independent in parliament today can upset the their behavior positively
Our constitution works in favor of the party in power so they will only talk about constitution reform
I think you have the Idea i am speaking about where you can select two candidates in a electorial constituency so the people who resides in that constituency will choose a candidate in an election to represent them and through a party system in parliament were you will have more effective representation for the people than a through a party system which is partisian politics and obligated to a leader or a party but for politics by the people and for the people which will be democracy and a goverment for all the people.
Facts… The big Editor suppressing Facts… Believe what you say Rite… You waist.. I can think for myself.. Annalise/decipher/conclude for my self…. So F– No you do not speak for me and many like me… Jus give me the Facks keep you F–ing opinion to yourself..
Fellah, this is a letter to the editor. You are aware of that format right? It is one in which ANYBODY can give their view on a topic. I would think people could understand what that means.
Top man that is the gray area you and other dwell. Giving you personal opinion. Facts is undisputable.. The Truth… Personal opinion always invites preference…
Would you speak the Truth even if shall cost you your life… Those who love preference will never
Rasta Man, who gave their opinion? It states that the letter was sent by the former PNM general secretary which tries to offer clarification something he thinks is important.
You could ignore. You could criticise it.
But attack the publisher for allowing someone a voice?
Big man, anything that one person says about politics, crime or the economy will make some people happy and some unhappy. You’d rather we publish nothing at all?
You can join in the conversation or you like or leave it alone. But let us have perspective and be mature.
Think for a second about what you read. Then respond. In that second it takes to think, you would appreciate who the author is and what point he was trying to make.
And THAT is what you should be commenting on.
Dats d height of his vocabulary, it’s expected
Totally wrong. It was Manning who called a meeting with these honourable gentlemen at his office and then referred to them as Community Leaders. As for gangs this has its genesis in the URP prog. Started under Eric…. and that was the beginning of the end.
Who cares, let’s get on with the people’s business.
Semantics!! But tell me who invited all those crooks to the holiday inn for a nice breakfast
Hey just now it won’t be indo ….Afro..Syrian…alyuh keep fighting nah!!!!! be …..”Mixture”
Narry Singh Mark Guerra was patrick manning’s friend,
Dole chadee to
I remember cocaine was found in a water tank of mr Sadiq Baksh what ever happen to that matter.
oaky,,, synopsis << Somehow ,, it is Panday's fault that the PNM negotiated with gang leaders and paid them moneys to be URP and CEPEP contractors in exchange for election ground work in their communities ... Panday's crime of letting ONE gang leader run for a local government post , is the REAL cause of the PNM's actions ... Good to Know ... Anything the PNM does BAD on a Massive scale is still the DLP's, ULF's, NAR's , UNC's or PP's fault ...
With all that stupid talk where are those community leaders today
Sean Bill Francis, Teddy Mice , Jazzy ( I know his given name) and Padmore( who was the mole in the PNM) were the right hand men of the UNC on the E/W corridor. They had the ear of certain ministers including Panday, and was the go between for the polling divs. Dozens of “activists” some who became candidates were financed by UNC. Mortages were paid off in cash, gov’t vehicles were received as gifts etc. The jealousy then stepped in and the killing began.
what killing began ? murder rates under the UNC were at an all time low …
The facts don’t corroborate your story ..
The timeline you describe has sub 100 murder rates in T&T ..
Evidence and stats please.Do you remember when Vegas, Caledonia , Morvant etc were the killing fields. Even Bill Francis became a stat, shot to death by his nephew , allegedly for a golden gun given to Bill by Danraj (ALLEGEDLY).
I agree but clarity is necessary for wrong accusations.
We say we intelligent , full of degrees, yet in 2018, we still falling for the political games being played? Is best we all had just SEA level education.
Wired868 u clearly have too much time on your hands ….so much t hat you don’t mind wasting it.
community leaders are of great use to the country. Every county should have some accordingly. They should receive a salary every month.Their job should be to report on the activities in their community good or bad, to their minister or representative for their area. And the authorities can take it from there.
these are visionaries—these are true leaders –what we have now is fools –manning said he want to build 3 smelter plants years ago we laugh and say we children will grow up with 4000 hands —any one check the price of aluminum right now –we would have money to buy other countries –panday said desal is the key to water problems we laugh –having 10 desal plants right now would be wonderful -u never have to worry about water –forget about them let we fight –who is nigger and who is coolie –u all have to admit these fellers always had great ideas
Your new word to ad to your limited dictionary. Go brave.
Y we always going back and looking back. Who said what or who did what has already been done. Let’s look forward, let’s try and deal with the now and the future people.
History you don’t change.
I agree. But the future u can pave.
In order to solve a problem you must start at the Genesis of the said problem. How did gang activities started, who fueled those activities when that is discovered you can start treating the issue/look for solutions.
Joan Yuille Williams hosted a grand luncheon for every single gang leader and their entourage in Cascade…….I was present……..the only one not in attendance, Barry Alphonse, is the only one still alive, albeit in Prison on a murder charge.
Mark Guerra, the biggest of them all, walked side by side with Manning, .
Was a citizen of T&T remind me.
What is wrong with the term? That is what they are. Bad ones. Community Leaders leading their community into damnation. We need some good ones.
Grow up People.!! How is ”who coined the phrase” more important than who did what?? Who is still doing what they want? ?
UNC and PNM ppl, Indo and Afro trinis, continue to fight nah, I love it….I’m Syrian, I will colonise you all
Garvin, let’s leave out the racial commentary nah.
Lasana Liburd I’m commenting based on the reality of this nation. I am a realist. I call it as I see it
Lasana Liburd when I see genuine patriots, ppl who understand and willing to fight for democracy, sovereignty and republicanism, then I will speak differently. Many of us are to dishonest and have double standards when it comes to the issues of this nation
Make us like syria today? Great vision
Garvin Teach Vialva maybe you did not notice Lasana’s double standards and hypocrisy !
Avi thanks for taking your time to share your wisdom and insight. Pace yourself though.
I am white and they definitely need “recolonization “
That’s wat big intelligent ppl fighting over who coined a word? Hahhahahha, I want to be a Syrian yes
Not sure what you mean but I don’t feel that “Syrian” talk helps this conversation.
why, if to two major races can’t open their eyes and stop the nonsense; I want to be a Syrian and get out that rat race and live like a king here.
There are people who live like kings in all races though. And probably people who don’t in all too. I know (or think) you’re trying to make a point to the supporters of the two major political parties but I won’t want you to frame it in a way that distracts from what I think you’re trying to say.
Me toooooto
Lasana Liburdd I am so fed up of wats going on, especially being an advocate for kids with disabilities. God alone needs to intervene in a massive way to change here. I am not seeing the quality of leadership that has the political will to improve this nation. All I see is the ‘eat a food ‘ syndrome at all levels. Neither of the two political parties care about this nation. Based on history, I am seeing what their intentions are
We have to consider how we can impose ourselves on our structure of governance. That’s the only way. But it does feel like the system is designed to keep us from doing that and being heard.
Let’s be real, I want to get all the big govt contracts. I want to be in a privileged family. Don’t u want to be able to command the PM or Police Commissioner? Who don’t want that? Why be among the crabs in the barrel over 60 years arguing and disliking each other over who’s superior , yet they both came from slavery and abuse?
I have two words DANA SEETAHAL
Ppl are afraid, too much at stake to stop their money train. Anyone who tries to what’s going on ………Dana Seetahal, Dr Heetal, Jean Miles, need I say more?
No, maam ,, what is going on here, is that Lasana is trying to take one of the worst aspects of the PNM 2002-2010 administration and blame the UNC for it ….
Avi, can you read? Do you think the publishing paper writes letters to the editor themselves?
So when we publish a letter from someone criticizing government we are UNC and if we publish a letter saying otherwise we are PNM?
I can’t take your contribution seriously if you don’t know the difference between a letter to the editor and the stance of a publishing house.
Thank you Mr Wired. I was “advised “by Danraj Singh to “talk” to my “community leader” when I asked the ministry for help in repairing the school where I taught at the time.
Esmee Duke remember we had spoken about this same thing I had put up on a post a few months ago
History can’t lie no matter who tries to change it
A pig by any other name is still a pig, so let’s deal with the ‘ now’ and not with the trivial! But then again, this who we are, as we ‘chook’ our heads ‘neath the sand in our daily demise, which began decades ago. Be real, do the calculation!
http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/Legacy_of_peace_built_on_life_of_crime-115422169.html
Steupses! It’s all political. Waste of time on an issue which will in no way improve our current predicament in T&T.
Really? Murders taking place like that and we bothered by who coined a name for gang leaders.
No wonder as a nation we failing badly…people we have to stop fiddling and solve the problems.
Time to forget who was, who now in authority have all options to deal with anything correctly as they could.
Manning made the term his own though when he sat down and joined forces with them to the tune of million dollar contracts… Followed by the famous quote “collateral damage” to describe the exploding murder rate that followed the deals.
Hmm amazing what’s important in this country. Who said what and who did this , steeeupppssss
What a waste of print matter and posting space. Wasn’t this expression coined long before these two leaders anyway? Geeeeeze
Absolutely not in that way. Community leader was a term of respect for people of value. Politicians perverted it.
Lasana Liburd, like painting stones white? Hhmm
Lasana Liburd though I don’t understand what you mean by “Absolutely not in that way”. Didn’t mean to say that you were wasting your own group’s posting space even as these words exactly reflected that, if you know what I mean. It was just a matter of expression. We all waste our posting space posting things about Trump for example but we all do it.
Linda I didn’t take it that way. I meant that although people said community leaders before, it was a positive term. Politicians made it a negative one.
It never meant what it does now.
Lasana Liburd oh oh I never realized it went into negative status, sorry. I just got down from Mars I guess. ?
That’s why I don’t take them on I guess. I just see them as FAILED community duds.
Lol. Well, at least he is right that it was a politician that coined the term as we know it.
Lasana Liburd take win!
Lasana but they were not always positive people. Many times they were the village bad Johns who people feared. Because they were feared many kept quiet but then at times they came out and reigned terror on the village. So let’s not get conned into thinking that the term was previously positive etc. Llewellyn Lopez, I guess these guys didn’t grow up around Sarge and Cannon etc. it really does show TT a place of many different communities. One country many worlds
Brian, I never heard of a bad John called a community leader in my life. Not in my village.
The community leader was the person who organized best village, ran the community center, was always ready to hold a cake sale to raise funds for one team or the other.
So I just don’t recognize what you all say is a community leader. Not in my community.
Lasana well in Laventille many were – you had the guys like Shabaz and Wilfred Farrell and you also had Sarge, Cannon and Cecil . Very different people with different agendas. I don’t know where you grew up but given some of the folk tales of yesteryear it seemed to be similar in most places. Around The steel band movement and in their respective villages would be a great example . I’m very clear about Laventille and maybe that’s what makes us special
Lasana also just reinforces my final point “one country and many worlds”
I’m from Arima.
Many persons that commenting on the thread & still choose to blame Manning clearly didn’t read the article or just too bias. Btw gang activities flourished under the Panday administration when Sadiq Baksh was the Min in charge of the URP programme and that’s a FACT
That’s where it flourished
100 % fact
“In 1998, Francis was the “godfather” of Vegas, Morvant. For the people pulling the strings, the ones with the influence, Francis was a means of cementing popular support in the East-West Corridor through the URP. The central-based United National Congress used him to help maintain the peace in People National Movement-dominated east Port of Spain as the party came into power, the first time in the history of T&T.
“Then works and transport minister in charge of the URP Sadiq Baksh appointed Francis as URP administrator in charge of Region II, Port of Spain, where Mark Guerra had embedded himself…”
http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/Legacy_of_peace_built_on_life_of_crime-115422169.html
People remember or fail to remember conveniently, in this society.
The fact is we need to stop living in the past and start finding solutions for the future. What does this article achieve? Does it help at all with prevention of crime or gang activity? Nope! Instead of debating over where it started let’s discuss how we can stop it so that our children can have a great future. I am yet to read a.comment where anyone offers a solution or an idea that will help.
This express article is what I would call a fair comment on the topic.
Yes the UNC used URP and the gangs as much as the PNM did ..
But the article posted in wired868 , today is a piece that tries to blame the UNC for the PNM’s behavior in 2002-2010 …
So true
So what difference it make who coined the phrase….today in this country we have a gang problem and it’s the major reason we have such a high murder rate ..yet we do not have the political will to do the right thing for the country….if we fail to do what is right by mandating our politicians to pass laws to protect us the we have no one to blame when our beautiful country goes to a point of no return…..
The Pnm try to pass the gang bill what the UNC do
All you realize the criminals are the politicians
Ppl font realise when the top rotten the bottom follows. And by top i mean all our last governments.
If they were criminals they would understand how to control them.
Mark Guerra was UNC .ENT.
Yes he was because Abu Bakar supported the U N C in the 1995 general election and campaign against Patrick Manning in sando east
It was manning who called community leaders at the CROWN PLAZA HOTEL and banned the media from attending. And after that meeting the country went on a killing spree up to this day. Check the records.
Seems like you all forget the Colour me Orange held at the Hilton with the infamous words ‘ hands up, hands out
Some of Dem can’t understand it was panday who used the term
Killing spree began after the 1990 coup ..go check the stats n see when we became so crime riddled I will bet money on it being after 1990 coup
Who thief the country wealth in five years
Nigel Simon Never a truer word.1992 I could not believe it was the T&T I was away from for only 2 years.After that it was down hill. Civility went through the window.
Narry Singh that’s a big fat lie Patrick Mmanning was never in any meeting with these heads at crown plaza that’s absolute nonsense
Dianne Joseph And then they called it Lifesport
On behalf of the people of Trinidad and and Tobago, I take it upon myself to personally apologize to the PNM for all that has been said about them and their member in the past. I would personally like to apologize to everyone: from Johnny O, to someone called a heart. Everything that is wrong with this nation has been really the fault of the other governing parties, over the past 55 years, who have skillfully managed to mismanage the nation’s resources; oil booms and all.
I dont think anyone is interested in who coined the phrase but who invited the community leaders to a meeting to sit down and pow wow with them.
Take the cobweb out your eyes and speak the truth for a change.Who brought these tugs out of their holes to protect their interest and for them to get a play in the East West Corridon sign the treaty with the USA to send Criminals from the USof . A.. Pity the memory lapses to suit your egos and false allegiance..
Sorry you fool.
We were talking about the community leaders.
If you want to change the topic you do not need to insult anyone. Only a fool does that.
I can see from your remark about cobwebs and your taking such a stong view that you are a PNM racist.
Please go back into your shell and stop insulting people.
Ain’t any body racial in this country but UNC PPL
Chloe and Lionel, please contribute without the insults. Let’s stick to the topic. Thanks.
Chloe Paul isn’t being insulting it’s Lionel Seeram who started using derogatory name calling which is a trade mark of the UNC supporters. The minute they can’t justify & articulate a point they start with the insults
Lionel Seeram Racism comes with control. I might dislike. Answer my question or do some research. What insults I have called no body any of the names bandied about in comments.Mr Liburd.
My point exactly.
Respond to me without trying to embarass me with “cobwebs”.
If we are discuusing one point then do not embarass me by namecalling because I did not address some other point that was not on the table.
Chloe Paul I will state again, I was addressing the issue of community leaders.
Now if you want to address another issue then we can do so respectfully.
I am not getting into any tit for tat with you. Debate is what I seek.i made a statement of fact.
So you do not see the statement of cobwebs in your eyes as being insulting.
I find it insulting.
http://rumshopparliament.com/2018/01/10/you-do-this/
Hahahaha
Perfect
Lard! The PR machine hitting on all sides
What is the point?
Haha
And?
Thanks Time has come to correct misinformation