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The Sports Company of Trinidad and Tobago (SporTT) made out cheques to eight of the Pro League’s 10 member clubs—Defence Force and Police FC are excluded for obvious reasons—after newly appointed CEO Adam Montserin met representatives from the teams at the SporTT office in the National Cycling Velodrome on Thursday morning.
The clubs had not received their TT$50,000 subventions since September.
(Courtesy Chevaughn Christopher/Wired868)
A SporTT release suggested that the late payments were due to “funding and compliance issues that prevented the clubs [from accessing] their monthly budget subvention.” These issues supposedly included: business plans, BIR numbers, audited accounts, strategic plans, incorporation letters, etc.
One counter proposal by club representatives was an amendment to the Corporate Act, so clubs can enter into business agreements regarding the use of community grounds. SporTT has promised to look at those issues, which can lead to more self-sufficiency from the clubs.
Sports Company chairman Michael Phillips admitted recently that his organisation is in dire financial straits.
Pro League clubs believe that the government will honour their promise to fund the teams until the end of the season in February. But it is uncertain what will happen thereafter.
Montserin, the former CEO at iGovTT’s National Information and Communication Technology Company Limited, vowed to meet the clubs again next month.
“We would meet again in January to look at improving how we engage clubs and to further discuss the possibility of public-private partnerships to enable them to achieve their objectives.”
(Courtesy Chevaughn Christopher/Wired868)
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On Tuesday, Rob Stevens, writing for BBC Sport Africa, presented a comprehensive look at the overall performances at the Paris Read more
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“[…] Some keen observations coming out of the show—apart from the long lines and late gates—was the failure to fully protect Read more
I don’t see people saying either PL or SL.. I think we are saying a unified league would make sense in the context of shrinking government subsidies and shortfalls in corporate sponsorship..
…EUREKA!!!! SOMEBODY SEEING WHAT I SAYING!!!!!!..
..Either you or I on the wrong thread Kester. I not comparing TTPL and SL. I talking about what is PROFESSIONAL and what is a JOKE..
Why is this an argument of TTPL vs SL? Both are relevant and both have their shortcomings and calenders to flip in order to become viable.
Professional sport here is still in its infancy and needs the benefit of time to become viable.
What I am sure it doesnt need is the petty comparisons and boasts of which is more valid.
Not sure why we can’t have a more viable “Super Semi-Pro League” that encompasses teams from both leagues, where teams are means tested and supported based on means testing. Players can be paid on a sliding scale based on a league salary cap on both ends, top and bottom. Such a league should have a division 1 and division 2, if not also a division 3 to allow for promotion and demotion. The corporate sponsorship pie is already relatively small, so a leader really has to get people to the table, to unify the football vision and get people to buy in and grow the concept. Feels like everyone is fighting for their own small piece of the pie, and there is no growth.. Praying to see a true football stakeholder meeting happen in the near future so brainstorming can yield positive ideas and down stream growth. To invite ideas is not to say one is clueless or doesn’t have ideas, so egos would have to be put to the side and that may well be where we fall short..
I agree. I think the best case scenario is the Pro League bends to allow it rather than fold altogether. There have actually been successes from the Pro League in terms of Caribbean titles and transfers to Europe and the MLS.
So I think the name actually does mean something, even without the big fan base.
Brian…i think semi pro is a backward step and think about it for our boys train then work and back for games…the sport have involved we are so far back…the only way to catch up to the the international standards is by our young ones having that professional minders from an early age and also our administrators …they can’t have an amature way of doing things…we have to get that professional mindeset in our environment
Earl, a couple things.. many Pro League players work today, particularly since the avg salary is around $3500-$4000 per month. Keep in mind, we are having this conversation due to the current Pro League model being unsustainable. Lastly, semi-pro can be implemented in many ways, just like a 4-3-3- or another system can be played differently. We just have to be creative and open minded.
I didn’t know many pro league players worked … Everyday you learn something.
At that salary..how do you take care of yourself, or your kids?
Shakira Thompson I didn’t know this either! But I suspect that may be the case with one or two teams.
Well, to start with I am including Police and D. Force.. and there are others, so more than one or two,,
I would defend pro football whether in or out of it…it is vital in the Caribbean not just tnt…for teams to compete at the elite level…sorry we can’t go backwards to amateur…
We are “pro” by name amateur by application. Sometime being pro aint about money it’s about application.
BOOM.
The problems off the field cannot be disputed. But the Pro League has produced the regional champion club for almost every year since its existence. That makes me feel that there could be positives that we won’t want to toss out.
lmaooo! i just have to laugh at that statement lmao
Well that is merely a fact I am stating eh David. That is not a feeling.
..Lasana. Lasana..
Lasana Liburd u cannot state that as fact when the regional teams are piss poor and worst of !!! yet they still give our teams hell in winning most matches……heck its been so for years.. saying they winning the regional club championship doesn’t justify progress!! it just shows!! spinning in mud!!!….. man using regional club championship like if is ah barometer of excellence!! ill continue to laugh at our begger man league!!!! Thank Goodness Uncle Jack saw this a mile an kicked it to the curb when he saw the beggerness from back then!! to now!!!
We are always talking about emulating Jamaica in sport David. So why can’t we be happy that our local teams are better than Jamaica’s teams?
I disagree with you on that.
lmaoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!! Lasana doh make me weak here!! i was never implying or even insinuating our sporting success*if some wanna call it dat* to Jamaica!! puh leeze.. Jamaica is a non relevant entity when it comes to football in my book…..only because of our stupidity and egos that run our sport have allowed Jamaica to get a lil shine in football..buh please doh take my point of Caribbean teams beating our teams in that how many decades championship. failure!! as me saying im comparing our sports in Football to Jamaica..!!!! i never compare our sports to Jamaica only in Track.and field.,!!everything else Trinibago has Surpass anything they can..so doh make meh laugh again na!!!
Sigh. I will stop making you laugh then David.
Low that … focus on the base not the static ….
No club in the Pro League depends solely on Govt funding so you wrong there. And you got to say if is me you talking about defending the League.. .and I do not receive a salary from Caledonia I put my money in it. And while there are challenges in the league ….administrative failure is your view but not Fact.
Further how come the League has been able to negotiate a deal with Govt. And you tried to get into the same League you cussing now
..Ansd no. Neither the TTPL nor the SL is important to Trini football. What IS important is an!proper ELITE league. But vested interests preventing common sense from prevailing. Meet TTPL? SL clubs tried that. TTPL didn’t even turn up. Not so Kevin Harrison?..
..As I said. REHASH. 1) Seeking State funding is not the same as relying on the State for your vwey existence. 2) Some players in SL make more than the starvation wages paid in TTPL. 3) Too many!people defending football URP because it secures their livelihood. 4) Fact REMAINS TTPL is a commercial, financial, administrative FAILURE. Nobody knows when a match will be played. How you go have broadcast revenue. Joke yes
I listening to both sides but I find it hard to disagree with those points. Fact is point #4 has to be addressed from the marketing aspect of any product or service first!
..No marketing. No money. Meantime people drawing big salaries from State funding.
will forever be a beggers man league yes!!
The pro league the super league is all important to football in tnt…how do we go about getting the out of them…where do we go from here??
Not attacking lasana it’s hard and sometimes I get fed up with…some people ….because you know that their imput is of importance but the negativity is just upsetting especially for our sport…where will these little young boys be if they dont have access to pro football …watch how many lives have been save….or lives change in a positive way…why can’t their imput be geared in a more positive manner…
I understand the different view and I’m not saying that you don’t have valid counter arguments. Just do it without “imputing improper motives” whenever you can. Right Renee? 🙂
Lol
Earl, I know Renee wants more protection rather than less for everyone. Which I agree with in principle. But we do have to cut posters some slack, especially when commenting on public figures.
hmmmmmmm
Earl Jean, I don’t think it fair to make this an attack on persons who disagree with your view. Disagreement is healthy because you can always learn something from a differing point of view.
Don’t attack the character of the person you are debating with.
Ah boy Sana, so much some of us are yet to learn. Yet we wonder why it seems we’re constantly spinning top in mud.
Dissenting views are not necessarily negative.
Clubs are working the European clubs had a great start…over 50 years…of work….pro league clubs have invested millions …yes it’s true the administrators of the pro league have lots of work to do…but maybe only if some who are on those blogs criticizing put their great minds at work to help the sport just maybe might have been further…some had positions for decades and look trinidad and Tobago national team still doesnt have their own football facility can u imagine a team that has qualified for a world cup…teams still struggling to get a ground to train…and thats national…not even pro league…
How can educate humans come on blogs and give so much negative imput towards the sports and cant come to the forefront to help administration…part of the problem is just selfishness…people pretend it’s about the game but it’s about them…
Not because we don’t shout everyday means we cannot shout back
I think some of them understand that Jamaal just think there is a fighting for power for one or two in the super league…dont think sometimes it’s about the football but more about egos…
Maybe you should meet with the Pro League and try to find common ground even to find out how to go about getting Govt funding …..rather than feel you can shout us out of existence
Some are trying very hard just to say i told you professional sports is a no no in the Caribbean…and we talk about third world….our mentality in the Caribbean is third world…because of the mindset of those that think only a few should prosper..just saying…
Jamaal Shabazz Keith Look Loy …for the sake of generations to come…would both Leagues be willing to meet in 2017 to AT LEAST consider the idea of 1 National League with 2 divisions? You are both right in your positions but some tweaking [long term] is required to make football more sustainable/feasible
.Rehash again. How many years have we talked aout that? TTPL prefer their charity closed league that gives people a livelihood at State expense..
Nicholas with the new constitution, FIFA mandated that there MUST be promotion and relegation with the Super League. Somehow that point seems to have vanished.
The League has a criteria for entry…I like the perennial mother Theresa try for them to relax it…..to allow Super League standard teams like yours to come in. But aha the club’s and your so called allies in the Pro League vote against it. So I understand why yu want the League to disappear
..Pipe dream. Not happening because TTPL hide behind theie 400k registration fee..
Kevin Harrison did you vote for Santa Rosa and other entities who could not meet the criteria to come in?
Jamaal, why you bringing me into this? I don’t believe I’ve ever attended a meeting where the subject of reducing the entry fee was seriously discussed. But, as Keith has pointed out, I did make a serious attempt at creating a pyramid system and while it was supported by Sheldon Phillips, Raymond Tim-Kee vetoed the project.
Lasana this is a simple discussion if men willing to reason. Promotion and relegation…the TTFA must have a fund to pay the 400k for the team gaining promotion
It will help everyone if the Pro League became easier for Super League clubs to enter. I don’t think the Pro League teams fully appreciate that their own survival might depend on it too.
Maybe Jamaal. Or new entry criteria altogether. But something must be done.
Lasana take care you fall off the blasted wire fence. And leave we to battle this out until we reach a solution or someone get knock out
Hahaha. No fence Jamaal. 1) Many of the Super League teams have the community link that Pro League clubs would envy and sponsors would love. 2) The Pro League becomes a bore by mid-season when half the teams have no chance of winning a trophy and just show up. 3) Teams at the bottom of the Pro League have no incentive to be competitive when there is no trap door to fall through.
For all those reasons, I have always said there ought to be a professional relationship between the Pro League and Super League.
Youth football has close to $17 million [$1.5M US – SSFL] and $8M NLCB-TTFA. This thing could greatly improve if we get the ‘entire’ national structure right
..You see? TTFA must pay for people to get in TTPL. Jokes yes. Everybody must pay for me except me. Parasite mentality .
Come back to me on my point eh Jamaal. Don’t disappear now. Lol.
400K for entry? Where would that money come from from new teams and what is it utilised for?
..WELL?..
We pay league administration and run the League day to day on our own based on input from the clubs. The TTFA also got to think about league development and I think paying for one of their teams in Super League to play higher up allows for promotion and relegation….without Keith and them coming in for FREE
Govt subvention is not even half of the club’s investment over the last 15 years …so we are no charity case
the subvention helps the salaries but it is by no way the total of our monthly bill..yu feel is super league
Same way in Super league men can lose their jobs running away from work
..Read Sancho in the paper today.
Give me a few minutes to read it. Don’t go
I totally agree with Sancho on this issue. Club’s must become compliant. And we have further outlined an approach which can enable the club’s to stand on their own two feet and not depend on state subvention. You missed that earlier point Keith.
..I ain’t miss nutten. After 15 years PROFESSIONAL clubs doh know dat? And it is left to be seen how many follow through. ALL that money. Scrambling for a true youth PROGRAMME. PROGRAMME. NO club house or field. Etc?.. Spending money and not INVESTING it. Even when they safe from relegation because THERE IS NONE..
The Super League has a place for new talent and players looking for job security ….but it’s your utopian dream Keith that don’t make ours wrong
And why go to the state…mere words cannot discredit the little benefits that the League has brought
Will our football not go backwards without the ability of to have a base of 140-plus footballers working full-time on their craft Keith Look Loy?
Unless the Super League intends to do that, I cannot see how it will be step forward for us in terms of trying to keep up with our international rivals. As much as the Super League has its own strengths.
Well then if yu so critical of state funding…why you accept money from Ministry
..If people want to mess around and waste their own money in this “professional” league that’s fine. But the State should demand more. And get more for its investment. Hell! Them TTPL clubs don’t even carry the TTPL logo on their shirt. FC Santa Rosa got a little cacada from MYSA last season and we give them ALL kinda branding. Joke yes!..
..All of this is a rehash of old conversations. The TTPL is a commercial failure. No sponsors. Life and death dependence on State funding. No broadcast revenue (while schoolboys playing live on Tv and the SSFL has a multi-million USD contract). No gate receipts. Commercial failure. Meantime, clubs being handed money they can’t/don’t account for. Beneficiaries bawling they are “small” organizations and accounting requirements are too much for them to handle. Administrative failure. When the new TT Super League goes to visit the State I hope we get a good reception..
Those are the kind of bully tactics that will lead to the pro league being dissolved. People thinking they are entitled to things that they aren’t. Watch.
“The average attendance at Brazil’s new arenas in the five months since the World Cup was higher than the league mean but stadiums in cities without major clubs are in danger of becoming white elephants, studies and experts said.
The average attendance at all games in the 12 stadiums was 18,300, just above the 16,562 recorded over the season in Brazil’s Serie A, statistics compiled by the Folha de S.Paulo and Lance! newspapers showed.
Although the attendance at first division games in new arenas is twice that in older stadiums, only three of the new venues, in Sao Paulo, Belo Horizonte and Manaus, were consistently more than half full.
Read more: 2014 World Cup tournament a good precursor to Olympic Games for Rio, writes Gary Meenagahan
In others without a strong soccer tradition, crowds were as low as 354 and grounds in Salvador, Recife and Natal regularly played host to less than 10,000 spectators.”
http://www.thenational.ae/sport/world-cup-2014/brazil-football-crowds-are-up-but-usage-of-2014-world-cup-stadiums-still-problematic
We still far away very far from the ideal …Travis Mulraine made the point maybe W Connection is the only club run along true business lines. But we have grown and provided employment and serviced the national program with players Coaches and administrators…..could we do with ideas in going forward yes….but don’t expect me to stay quiet ….when you prefer to CURSE our DARKNESS than to LIGHT our candle…..
Well said Jamaal
Govt subvention has been for only 6 years. The league started in 1999 with Jack Warner when he took his marbles and left in 2001….did we fold up ? No …we rebranded TT Pro League out of the PFL and in order to keep the thing alive we played two years without prize money. Now men who start their careers in the League has been able to come back at the evening of their careers and still participate .
Why is the government funding these private football clubs every month?
But don’t we talk about diversifying the economy all the time? Won’t the sport industry count as a young sector in need of help?
Even the millionaires like the Abouds and Sammys still get State deals. Don’t forget.
So wait.
After the government spends taxpayments to build stadia and the infrastructure, the taxpayments have to also support the people who play the sports and the administrators?
Wow.. and we don’f understand why things can be hard in this country?
If a country soends and spends and spends and it gets less and less income will it not eventually go bankrupt?
So wait.
After the government spends taxpayments to build stadia and the infrastructure, the taxpayments have to also support the people who play the sports and the administrators?
Wow.. and we don’f understand why things can be hard in this country?
If a country soends and spends and spends and it gets less and less income will it not eventually go bankrupt?
So wait.
After the government spends taxpayments to build stadia and the infrastructure, the taxpayments have to also support the people who play the sports and the administrators?
Wow.. and we don’f understand why things can be hard in this country?
If a country soends and spends and spends and it gets less and less income will it not eventually go bankrupt?
And to have a Pro League that receives Government assistance means the cup still have water. Outside of Govt subvention an average of 8 club’s have invested collectively in excess of 80 million TT dollars into the economy via the Pro LeAgue
And who feel for instance that Caledonia not entitled to the grounds in Morvant ….know that jump high jump low…we the people in Morvant going to take it.
Shabazz ….how is that ground maintained and by whom?
The Utopian dream is to stand on your own feet as a football entity but getting to their is a struggle and if the Pro League has leveraged politically the subvention….we now want the grounds to end it.
I agree Brian that we do not want another URP CEPEP or Caroni situation. However the Pro League clubs have a plan for self sufficiency and Sports Company can play a major role in bringing it into fruition. And from a political standpoint Morvant and Laventille will be organizing ourselves watch and see. Who vex vex but Eric Williams children have to get theirs. Sabga and Sat Maharaj children got theirs…challenge me to show you
“Crowds, which boasted a paltry average of 14,000 in 2011, are down even further this year. A few Saturdays ago, 2,852 huddled together for warmth at the boondoggle that is Rio de Janeiro’s Engenhão for Fluminense vs. Portuguesa. Flu’s neighbours Flamengo, who boast the biggest supporter base in the country, shouldn’t crow too much. Only 4,200 paying customers showed up for their game with Atlético Goianiense this Sunday just gone. Not to be outdone, São Paulo’s Palmeiras were watched not by a crowd so much as a small gathering of 2,580 last weekend.
The grim reading goes on. Three home games into the Serie A season, the average attendance at Santos, current Libertadores holders, is less than 5,000. The home opener of Botafogo, Clarence Seedorf’s new club, drew 4,836 paying fans. Across the board, the Serie A average gate in 2012 is hovering around the 10,000 mark.
Down in Serie B things are even more pitiful. Three weeks ago, the home games of each of Barueri, Bragantino, São Caetano and Ipatinga were watched by crowds of under 1,000, with the last drawing an attendance of 232 – which presumably meant there were as many people working at the game as there were paying to watch it.”
http://www.worldsoccer.com/blogs/brazilian-football-when-silence-isnt-golden-336195
Wow! That is scary
Brian Harry, look at some of the crowds that Brazilian top flight footballers play in front of. It really is a complex issue. The Pro League can and should be better. But it is a long road to self sufficiency and I can’t see them getting there without the government.
Lasana Liburd I’ve spent much time in Brazil for work reasons and seen at Keats ten or so club games . I never saw a poor crowd. Our pro league has been around enough to be in a better place. No excuses.
Also the professional teams need to look for sponsors in the US/ Foreign eh, there are organizations that will find the sponsors for them and of course will want a percentage for doing so maybe about 15% and this will surely help them with plenty more expenses and this was certainly done by another team playing another sport.
Product on field = interest = benefit of investing. Foreign sponsors not coming to invest in something where there us no return on income. The pro league teams has to bring a business plan to show the benefits of investing money in this league. As it currently stands this is a dead league.
“Italian clubs would be unable to survive based on gate receipts alone, with average crowds of just 22,591 in Serie A last season.”
http://www.espnfc.com/story/1786325
sigh
Just for the sake of this thread do some of the math (bare minimum) to run a team of 25 players and 7 staff. 4K per player and 5K a month for staff.
Just that, dont even include trnasport and other associated costs. Then figure out how many home games u’ll need per month with at least 5k spectators paying $20 to cover operational costs.
That should give an idea of why Govt has to be involved majorly in the pro league.
Well, thats why the teams have to put a product on the field that people will pay to see! When the product is crap, yes you will struggle. I’m totally against subsidies – pan, sport, calypso, manufacturing, etc We need to generate higher quality saleable products which create competition and competition in turn drives up quality. Dr Rowley was right a few weeks ago when he said people have to be weaned off government. The only thing wrong with his message was that he delivered it in laventille
The WNBA took 11 years for its first team to make a profit. It’s most successful franchise folded. Sport is challenging to make profitable in most countries.
And I believe US cities still spend big bucks on their professional sport teams. Not so? Absolutely right.
The US is the most basketball crazy country in the world and the WNBA can barely survive. Several
NBA teams have folded or changed cities in the past 20 years.
Brian Manning, additionally the W league in the US went belly up twice in a country the has the most females playing the game and has the most world championships at all levels.
brian manning ..while basket ball is definitely a popular sport in america ..considered the big for in major team sport the others being football [american] baseball… ice hockey..safe to say basketball is not the number one team sport in america … and while it is widely popular the Philippines and Lithuania ..where basketball is the number one sport by miles in those respectful countries is what you will call basketball crazies…china which have a basketball population that is almost equal the size of the entire united states population ..china is basketball crazy… also no nba team has folded in the last 20 years..however they have change locations for various reasons
Christorpher Jackson Charles that is not the point. The point is professional basketball is about half a century old and very popular in the US. And yet it still needs Govt support.
Also, basketball is the biggest pro sport in the US because of the global inroads the NBA has made. The other major pro sports are national. The NBA is global.
Only baseball is close. Football with all its stadia and popularity is generally an American sport.
Personally, the only American sport I have ever followed is basketball. And I watched a handful of MLS games–in more than a decade–when a Trini was involved. That’s it.
The NFL and baseball earn more domestic revenues but basketball is global and still growing. They have made inroads in china, Brazil, Africa and Europe.
It is many moons now that I have been saying that the government should invest in our community/minor league football where many of the great players are from of which some of them doesn’t even want to represent our Soca Worries for various reasons and from the minor leagues around our sweet country the bestest players can be selected and then added to an Elite program, last night I was in Carenage and I was told about the quality of players that still exist there but the problem is the lack of education amongst other things I was also introduced to a player that represented St. Anthony’s College but no longer plays because he has reached the age, cannot get a football scholarship because of his academics and these are the sort of things that really hits home when I am hearing about them, so the next thing for this youngster might be hanging out with the bad boys and start doing the illegal things I was also told that Angus Eve had taken his brother to play with the StAnns Rangers FC but is no longer there because Angus Eve himself left to coach another professional team in the league, so my question is, how many more of our talented young players are we going to let fall through the cracks before we seriously starting doing the rights things for them and hence the reason why the “Players Association” is needed so quickly in our sweet country. Them really good yes.
Brian, you should know that at least 90 percent of Italian Serie A clubs still pay in stadia owned by the State. The great AC Milan doesn’t have its own stadium.
Real Madrid received hidden million dollar subsidies from the government within the last decade too. I think any blossoming industry will require State assistance personally and an integral industry will probably need it for a long time.
I think it should be part private sector and part public sector. Which industry in Trinidad and Tobago runs without State funding?
Lasana, I know that but let’s be clear, the revenues generated from those stadia go toward community infrastructure involvement. There are also strict measures in place for monitoring and standards. Just giving money to everybody who ask is politics, not management
Kester Lendor I admit I am ignorant to the facts but do you know typically what % of a teams budget does the government subsidies account for?
Differs per club. But I have no doubt that, for some clubs, the subvention might be over 80 percent or even over 90 percent of their budgets.
I dont know for numbers, but I understand from Jamaal that the small clubs can get by on 150K per month.
I’d want to believe some teams get by on far less than that Kester. I understand some teams–maybe one or two to be fair–were run on roughly 80,000 when the subvention WAS 80,000. I’m not sure about now.
Brian Harry pro football is over 100 yrs old in England as opposed to what 17yrs here. Do u really understand what it cost to operate a pro team here?
Yeah Brian because you see the British do that now you have a second position. For right or wrong there is a historical reality to this subvention. And a pre condition for its continuation and halting . Thus the meetings for further discussions
Yes, governments must create “grassroots” infrastructure!!! They should not support professional teams! In the UK case you just cited as you see the PL works in concert with the government to improve infrastructure which is a from of giving back.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-50-million-boost-for-footballs-grassroots
Not sure if I missed it, but do we know if all arrears were paid? Or was it just one month of backlog paid? Thanks
And if they are receiving subventions, there should be accountability – budgeting, reporting, and some standards established.
Why do we have a pro league that receives government subventions????? These subsidies are killing everything about TT.