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No Holders Barred: Get it straight! No letter in LGBTQI stands for God

On 8 October, 2013, Newsday published a letter to the editor, headlined “Say no to gay marriages” and signed by Valentine Young, with which I fully agreed. Young’s position was that the legalisation of same-sex marriages had brought God’s wrath upon the United States of America (certain states anyway) because their sanctioning of homosexuality is a departure from the word of God.

Because I had already addressed that issue of homosexuality in my writing, I left it there.

Not long afterwards, another letter, headlined “No link between gay unions, storms” and signed by Kristie Harnarine, appeared in the Trinidad Express. It sought to refute Young’s assertions and essentially expressed approval of same-sex relationships and marriage.

Photo: A same-sex marriage in the United States.

And having read it, I also left it there.

“Whatever,” I told myself. “I’m so tired of these people deluding themselves into believing that homosexuality and other such categories of sexual orientation are okay. They propose all manner of foolish arguments to persuade others that that is so and to put their own guilty minds at rest and make themselves feel comfortable.”

And I was going good, I was really going good… until one morning I read another letter in the Newsday, headlined “Proud of myself.” In it, one A. Khan notes that, while he comes from a religious family, he now proudly proclaims his homosexuality, embraces his LGBTQI friends and is secure in the knowledge that God loves him.

Let’s sort this thing out once and for all. If you want to be gay, go ahead, suit yourself. But do not use the name of God to legitimize your cause, do not twist His words and do not dishonour His name.

There is nothing in the word of God that even remotely suggests that He approves of such behaviour. God does not sanction homosexuality or any other of the LGBTQI categories. In fact, throughout the Bible, there is explicit confirmation of God’s disapproval of homosexual and other similar acts.

For instance, Genesis 19:1-11 shows clearly that God frowns on homosexuality. God is preparing, in this passage of scripture, to destroy the City of Sodom and He sends a couple of angels in human form to rescue Lot and his family. When Lot invites the angels to pass the night at his home, some of the homosexuals in the city show up at Lot’s house seeking to have sex with his guests. The angels pull Lot into the house and blind the homosexuals.

Photo: A protester carries a placard condemning same-sex marriage.

Leviticus 18:22 is unequivocal. “Do not practise homosexuality,” it warns, “having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin.”

Similarly, Leviticus 20:13 is categorical. “If a man practises homosexuality,” it says, “having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act.”

In Judges 19:16-24, the story is told of an old man who takes in a couple of travellers, one male and one female, for the night. Some homosexuals in the area, aware of the presence of the travellers in the elderly man’s house, show up with the undisguised intention of having sex with the man. His host would have none of it.

“No, my brothers,” he chides them, “don’t do such an evil thing (…) don’t do such a shameful thing to this man.”

“Evil” and “shameful” aren’t my words; they’re right there in God’s word.

But, some may protest, that stuff comes from the Old Testament; we are long past the days when we should allow ourselves to be guided by the Old Testament. So wthout agreeing that the teachings of the Old Testament are no longer valid, I shall add a couple of passages from the New Testament that re-affirm what we have already seen in the Old.

We can begin with Romans 1:18-32. “…God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who suppress the truth by their wickedness,” we read.

Photo: A couple show their support for same-sex unions.
(Copyright Elvert Barnes)

“Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn’t worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like… That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other…”

“…sinful, wicked people…,” “…shameful desires…,” “…the natural way to have sex…,” “…normal sexual relations…” No comment necessary, I think.

“Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God?” 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 asks. “Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God.”

I don’t think I need to go on. I trust that such confusion as there might have been is now securely laid to rest.

And that neither Mr Harnarine nor Mr Khan nor anyone else of their ilk any longer harbours any illusions about how strong is the Living God’s active disapproval of their perverted lifestyles.

About Akilah Holder

Akilah Holder
Akilah Holder is a former college lecturer and journalist whose strong convictions often win her enemies, which does not faze her. She lives by the mantra ‘ignore the ignorant,’ has already published one book and has her own blog at https://intelligenttalk.wordpress.com/

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592 comments

  1. Me thinks that the Kenroy Ambris doth protest too much..

  2. The theory that religion is a force for peace, often heard amomg the religious right and its allies today, does not fit the facts of history.. Steven Pinker.

  3. it come like the show on tv two dads & a son wtf you guys trying to our kids with your dirty minds

  4. Yes I agree. The existing thread is already cumbersome ?

  5. Yikes, this thread is a trainwreck.

  6. Hope this can get its own thread and not be buried in the comments of this one.

  7. i on other hand read the whole bible cover to cover and have thrown away the general accepted interpretation lol

    without reading the rebuttal i dont know if its going to try to convince us that God somewhere approves of homosexuality and he was misrepresented in the Bible

    what he made sure of expressing was his displeasure with the worldy judgment of sinners

  8. “My experience of so-called ‘bible study’ was not about scholarship but affirmation of pre-existing theology. The interpretation of the scriptures was already done for you and drilled into your head, with lots of fervour and emotionalism and authoritarianism.
    “Then you were given pre-selected verses to apologetically defend what you had been indoctrinated—with lots of fear and peer pressure—to believe is true. That is what was being passed off as ‘study’ of the bible.
    “Imagine how my world turned upside down when I finally got access to actual academic biblical scholarship materials.”
    Jessica Joseph, a pop cultural anthropologist and human right activist, addresses the interpretation of The Bible by critics of same-sex unions
    https://wired868.com/2018/02/16/found-translation-dangers-using-bible-guidance-lgbtqi-movement/

    • Hello, personally I’m not the least interested in your or anyone else translation concerning the dangers of using Bible for guidance on LGBTQI… My god instructs me to use his words for guidance in life and that’s enough for me. I am totally against their lifestyle and it is condemned in the bible. Nothing else matters to me.

  9. Somehow, this is a good post, I’ve learned a lot form the comments made.

  10. D’Sisterhood. Slow your roll. Sin may be common but that can never be grounds for suggesting a religion legitimize it. Totally erroneous logic and vacuous to boot.

    • But what is religion?..if we are so keen on living lives dictated by tradition and myth. Then why don’t we follow the bible word for word..my argument is not one of sin but one of hypocrisy.

    • The bible is multifaceted. We no longer work with our hands or travel by cart or foot. The Bible is composed of Judaic books and New Testament. Traditions and teachings of the Jews were maintained where they were not renewed by the Gospel of Christ. People of the Bible are just as in need of salvation as all humanity. We are all sinners. It would be foolish however to say that we lower the bar in terms of teachings because so many allow themselves to live misguided by the world and its temptations.
      We are all trying to work out our salvation. Some are just more willing to be completely faithful. Some accept being weak and refuse to work given the temporal pleasures afforded by living in sin. Christ died for all even those that will reject Him. True love leaves us with the freedom to reject it.

    • D’Sistahood Trinidad “But what is religion?” Brilliant question. That is exactly what people should be asking themselves in these times. Religion and all its dogmas stem from man’s imagination, man’s necessities, man’s socio-economic realities relative to his survival. Religion fills the gap where people struggle to comprehend their reality.

      Judiasm and its derivative, Christianity are all syncretic in nature. They pulled from many different sources and adopted and adapted them and they evolved over time. There are thousands of sects, each one treating the religious texts a little differently.

      In addition, every individual who walks on the earth is going to have a unique experience doing so which will as well, shape what they know to be true in their lives. You will find even among those within the same overall culture or tradition, have certain distinct differences in how they approach it, how they treat with religious texts etc. Since no religion can prove itself absolute truth, there are also those that are also valid in rejecting it altogether.

      That is the most important thing. NO RELIGION CAN PROVE ITSELF ABSOLUTE TRUTH. All of its teachings and assertions have to be believed on faith not evidence. Its deities NEVER appear and give universal verification of their existence. It is always another human being speaking. ALWAYS HUMAN. ALWAYS second-hand accounts and hearsay.

      So, it is up to each individual to seek their truth and be honest about it. Be wary of those who have a problem with this and want everyone to follow THEIR religious beliefs and try to demonize and other anyone who does not accept their particular religious opinions. We know where that leads- fundamentalism, extremism, human rights abuses.

    • Jessica Joseph u said it all..”hugs:..u get what im expressing..one mans truth is another mans lie…who are we to say what is wrong or right based of predated text..myths and fantasies…
      As long as a man is at peace in his spirit who am i to tell him otherwise.

    • Wow. So DNA and reproductive organs be damned.
      You are arguing for subjective views of objective truths/facts that are unchangeable. No man after sex change will have periods. No same sex acts can produce offspring. To believe otherwise is utter falsehood and delusion.
      Genetically it cannot be a trait passed on since you would require both partners to have ancestors with the traits. That however has never been proven. So all the lgbt arguments rest in sentiment. None are airtight.
      So you wish to attack the Bible. Great. Leave that and read the Vedas.
      Reality is feelings cannot overturn an objective truth. They can deny it but since there are lgbt who have returned to hetero lifestyles. There remains no proof of it being more than a delusion.

    • What? You are all over the place. Nobody was ever saying that a transgendered person after a sex change is genetically female. Where are you getting that from?

      You do understand how genes work right? There are dominant traits and recessive ones. You also know about epigenetics right? That genes in combination with other or exposed to certain chemical triggers can change and alter the results. You also realize that Homo Sapiens, the most complex, intelligent and socially sophisticated of all mammalian apex predators are also going to manifest a far more diverse spectrum of sexuality than lesser intelligent, lower food chain animals, and even among those, you can find just as much sexual/gender variation.

      Valid critique of the bible is not attacking it. We have intellect, we have curiosity. We cannot be expected to just blindly follow something unquestioningly. Why is that a problem?

      Pre-Islamic invasion and British invasion India was far more sexually liberal because like most cultures where there are BOTH Gods and Goddesses as well as gender changing deities and intersex deities (for example Shiva is often represented as Ardhanarisvara, with a dual male and female nature. In many Hindu mytho tales, stories of gods and mortals changing gender occur. Sometimes they also engage in heterosexual activities as different reincarnated genders.), they understand that sexuality and gender are complex, not simplistic.

      Similarly with cultures and spiritual traditions where they recognize that two narrowly defined boxes are not enough to capture the full spectrum of humankind, and therefore they have far more varied and layered approaches to the subject.

      My only concern is the expression of gender and sexuality not its form. Whether hetero or homo, cis or trans or intersex, my only concern is whether the individual is expressing their innate sexual/gender make-up in a way that is respects the human rights of other people or in a way that violates it.

      I am very familiar with ex-gay apologetics and I am waiting for verifiable examples of someone who is a confirmed homosexual turning into a heterosexual. So far, no such evidence exists. Instead what we see are either bisexual people choosing one side over the other because of social pressure, religious-derived guilt, fear of losing family and community who might object or having bad luck in love with one side or the other.

      We also do not speak of the fact that there are even more ex-ex-gays who realized it does not work and they were harming themselves by repressing their authentic sexuality and pretending to be straight out of religious pressure and fear of homophobia. Even the founders of the ex-gay Movement have come out and confessed it does not work and they hurt countless people with it.

    • Hahaha. So they cant just see a male reproductive organ and understand its purpose cannot make sense without the female? It mist be religious guilt?
      You seem to be indicating your bias against any truth or fact. Is it that an absolute unchangeable fact chafes your mind? Sorry but your arguments remain subjective with no basis in what is. You still havent expanded what those words meant to Jews. I personally guarantee they meant more than temple prostitutes and sodomy. The fact they speak against a woman lying with a woman ought to indicate that.
      Be that as it may. Do continue.

    • I replied in another comment that I have done a very lengthy and detailed expansion and submitted it to Wired. Hopefully, it will appear soon.

      No-one is debating that reproduction is not the primary function of the genitalia. However, pleasure is also a very valid secondary function that is not mutually exclusive to the reproductive one. We also know that sexual pleasure particularly between individuals who love one another, is beneficial and positive. We also know that not everyone wants to or should be reproducing because it comes with parental responsibilities. We also know that just because someone cannot reproduce it does not mean their sexual desire or need for sexual intimacy goes away. Clearly, the two are separate in function and benefit. All apex, mammalian, predators with higher intelligence engage in sexual activity completely outside the ovulation cycle of fertile females.

      Again, human beings, having the highest brain function of any apex, mammalian predator on the planet are quite capable of being inventive and imaginative in how they seek sexual pleasure. So long as it is done responsibly and with informed consent by all parties involved, and in a spirit of the Universal Human Golden Rule of reciprocity, then there is no ethical issue there. There is much within certain segments of the LGBT community I personally find fault with because they do not live up to that code. But then there is much within certain segments of the heterosexual community that does the same. Sexual exploitation, irresponsible promiscuous sex, predatory behavior, rape, etc. it knows no orientation.

      However, just as there are heterosexuals who live their life with love, commitment, kindness and personal responsibility, there are also homosexuals who do the same.

      You aren’t refuting my points at all I’m afraid. You introduce new arguments but never really refute the ones before. But feel free to move the goal posts as we discuss the issue. There is no argument I have not heard before.

      I am very eager for you to provide me with the biblical verse that speaks about women having sex with women. That I have to see! I’ve already given a thorough analysis of Romans 1:26-27, so if you come with that debunked reference again, I’ll really be disappointed.

    • JessicaJoseph if you have not seen the verse that speaks about as you put it ” women having sex with women” then you have not read the book.

    • Ucill Cambridge I’ve read the bible cover to cover. No verse speaks about women having sex with women. If you are referring to Romans 1:26-27, Paul never said women were having sex with women in the original Greek scripture okay, nor was that even a concept that the earliest biblical commentators even contemplated or saw in that scripture.

    • Read it again. Every time I go into the Word, I see something I missed. Almost as if it were alive 😀

    • Yup, read it over and over. No mention of women having sex with women. It does mention women changing the natural use of themselves. This has always been until recently seen as an indictment against male-female oral and anal sex.

    • It’s on my screen as we speak 😉 Yup, still no reference to women having sex with women or to women being innately homosexual either. You must be reading a lot into the verse that just is not there.

    • Keep reading the Good Book Jessica, keep reading.

    • Thank you, I will but it’s not just about reading for reading sake, but understanding what you are reading in its proper context and not force-fitting modern interpretations to things that the writer was not referring to.

    • Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding . In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

    • One can only understand anything through their own mind and emotions. It is through your brain and consciousness that you know anything at all. And if you have the ability to think, research, understand, then you should use it.

    • I am very wary of anyone who tries to stamp out thinking and research and query and prefers people to be simple-minded.

    • “For our boast is this, the testimony of our conscience, that we behaved in the world with SIMPLICITY and godly sincerity, not by earthly wisdom but by the grace of God.. ” What a boast eh Jessica.

    • Deuteronomy is the book within which I believe the verses on same sex relating to men and women. I am yet to reach home so the Book is not with me. Perhaps you nay find it by google. Ttyl

    • Ucill Cambridge Nice verse but I still won’t surrender my intellect to someone else and will continue to think, ponder and examine and decide for myself and encourage others to do the same 😉

    • Chris Mark D Well looking forward to seeing the passage in Deuteronomy you believe refers to women having sex with women. Get home safely.

    • Well Jessica you hold fast to yours, my final caution to you friend “It is vain for you to rise up early, to sit up late, to eat the bread of sorrows.” But keep reading, something might take root 😀

    • Jessica, I accept my error. There is no verse mentioning a woman lying with a woman as with a man.
      Leviticus 18:22 mentions the opposite. Man lying with man as with a woman.
      So yes there is no expressed opinion on lesbianism.
      I could infer that a heavily patriarchal

    • In a heavily patriarchal society. Women may not have been liberated enough to err in this way.
      The other aspect of this statute is can it be inferred or understood that its opposite must hold true (if it is that we are all equal in the sight of God)?

    • Ucill Cambridge Thank you. To be honest, there is a lot of timeless wisdom to be found in the Hebrew and Greek scriptures just as there is a lot of timeless wisdom to be found in many ancient writings. The key is separating the limitations of the writers’ prejudices, culture, geography, politics, primitive superstitions and lack of knowledge about a great many things. Then on top of that, also dealing with all the intentional and unintentional human error in selection, editing, re-writing, translating etc. You cannot un-know what you know.

    • Chris Mark D Correct, there is nothing in the Old Testament on lesbianism. It did not mean there weren’t women who loved women but the Hebrew focus was on sperm which they saw as very precious and frowned on its wastage.

      They did not see women as having the seed of life (although women also do) because they did not understand the reproductive process fully. They thought only men contained the seed of life in his sperm. Wasting sperm was frowned upon. A seminal emission rendered one unclean. A woman who had a period meant she did not incubate a man’s seed and her womb rejected it, making her unclean. It is why for a woman back then, being infertile was such a HUGE, HUGE stigma of shame. It meant she was essentially killing a man’s seed.

      Because they thought only men were Life Givers, containing future generations, it is what made men more valuable to them than women. When a man died, there was an expression, “His blood is calling out!” It literally means, you did not just kill him but his entire bloodline. Women were not seen as having bloodlines, only men.

      So much of the biblical view on sexuality is shaped by ignorance and misogyny.

      The primitive Hebrew view that sperm = a human being or somehow contained Divine Magical powers would persist all the way into the Christian empire. If you look at illustrations of sperm from back then, they depicted it as little complete people. A woman was only considered to be a plot of land to plant the seed in. Once pregnant, a man considered her to be holding HIS PROPERTY.

      If you read St. Augustine’s writings, you also see that fear of wasting semen was akin to murder. You will also see his very misogynistic views about women as well. Thomas Aquinas as well.

      “Woman does not possess the image of God in herself but only when taken together with the male who is her head, so that the whole substance is one image. But when she is assigned the role as helpmate, a function that pertains to her alone, then she is not the image of God. But as far as the man is concerned, he is by himself alone the image of God just as fully and completely as when he and the woman are joined together into one.” —Saint Augustine, Bishop of Hippo Regius (354-430)

      “As regards the individual nature, woman is defective and misbegotten, for the active force in the male seed tends to the production of a perfect likeness in the masculine sex; while the production of woman comes from a defect in the active force or from some material indisposition, or even from some external influence. —Thomas Aquinas, Doctor of the Church, 13th century”

    • Chris Mark D This superstitious view about sperm being the seed of life or having magical powers also extended to many of the Canaanite cultures surrounding the Hebrews. They would perform sex-rituals with sperm, giving it to a temple prostitute (male or female) through ritual sex, often involving anal intercourse. The Canaanites and the Egyptians also had deities that were incestuous- brother and sister, mother and son/husband etc. and to honor them, would engage in similar sex rituals as well.

      People love to pull one verse out but if you read the entire chapter of Leviticus 18, it is basically listing a series of Canaanite sex rituals. In fact, the Chapter starts with an admonition not to follow the practices of the Canaanites and Egyptians. Just before it mentions men lying with men “as with a woman”- that is an important distinction there. It talks about not making your sons or daughters shrine prostitutes or offering them to Molech.

      That is the context of that scripture. But I’ll be covering it in more detail in Wired. Soon.

    • My albeit limited understanding of offering children to molech was that of child sacrifice.

    • Example of this understanding was seen in pro life video, The Massacre of the Innocents.

    • Caanite blood sacrifices to Molech were followed by a fertility ritual. The sacrifice of blood to the male deity and offering of semen to the female deity Ashoreth, through a male or female temple prostitute.

    • Recommend the viewing of the video. Adult audiences only.

  11. Live your life how you want and go to hell or heaven,it’s your choice, I choose the ladies,I am going to heaven.

  12. The fault begins once anyone uses the bible as their ground of reasoning and moral compass because the version that we know today in itself is flawed and contradicts in many ways the ways in which church folk and mankind in general live..

    • No fault, it is deliberate that Christians don’t adhere to World reasoning :”If any of you thinks he is wise in this age, he should become a fool, so that he may become wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. “

    • It goes even deeper than that. The geo-political, environmental and socio-economic realities of those that wrote the bible, the motives of those that picked and chose which would become the bible we know today, often have nothing to do with the realities of a post-Industrial, post-Enlightenment society.

      Imagine living in a time and age where people did not even know how or why natural disasters happen. They did not know women contributed 50% of the genetic material towards conception and thought only men contained the seed of life. They did not know about mirco-organisms that caused diseases. They were living at the mercy of nature and in a LOT of fear of it and superstitious notions about it. Then on top of that, fertile, arable land is scarce in the Middle East and life depends on agriculture. Then on top of that, you are surrounded by constant invading tribes and empires trying to take your land.

      Of course there is going to be an emphasis on fertility because people are living short lives and dying from things that we today with modern medicine can easily cure or avoid. Women are dying in childbirth of complications we today can easily solve. So having as many children to compensate becomes imperative. Farming is still a manual process so you need human-power to farm. You need human power to protect the land from invaders as well. Of course it is going to be about subjugating women so they become little else but baby-making factories. Of course, any wastage of semen is seen as a crime.

      People need to look at a population growth chart and see we no longer live in such desperate times. 300,000+ babies are born every day thanks to advances in medicine. We do not need every single person breeding, nor should every single person have to.

  13. The argument is pointless…..judgement is not for groups but for individuals. So if someone choose the LBGT life they will be judged accordingly…..and many of the Bible thumpers who trying to remove specks…..make sure you check out that beam going in your eye and comming out the back of your head. God is good, god is fair and God alone shall judge.

  14. There is nothing in the word of God that even remotely suggests he approves of tattoos either. Indeed, according to Leviticus: ‘Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the Lord.’ Shall we take a stand against body art too? I can grudgingly accept a personal opinion, Akilah Holder. I can’t accept the gross hypocrisy of the cherry picking of centuries old doctrine outlined in a book no one is entirely sure who wrote and which, over the centuries, has been subject to extensive editing and used as a tool of control and justification for colonisation, subjugation and mass murder.

    • Oh let’s not forget the consumption of shrimp, fish without scales (bake & shark anyone?) wearing clothes with mixed fabric (hi polyester/cotton blend) & a man touching you whilst on your period. Akilah Holder needs to not type anything until she figures out who the hell she is because this isn’t the first time she has left us laughing at her idiocy.

  15. All im reading here since yesterday is a group of people trying to justify NASTINESS. It is very sickening. We already have soo many diseases in this world and if we continue with this STINKNESS humankind will one day varnish like dinosaurs. Watch and see….

    • You have any idea how many times “humankind” has “vanished” from this planet?..don’t fret on it, we always reboot and come back.

    • Kenroy we are probably more likely to die from climate change, than sodomy, or people having sex. The end of the world is coming because people of the same sex are having sex with each. I just can’t. This is so insane. ??????

    • Keita, I never said anything about the end of the world coming.
      I dont know if its coming or going, all i know is there are NASTY STINKING people out there who are pushing their DICK into SHITHOLES and trying to justify that NASTY behavior.
      That nastiness can cause all sort of DISEASES and
      Nothing you can tell me to justify that.

    • Okay Kenroy you said, and I quote, ” humankind will one day varnish”. So I guess you did not say the world would end, but it will be varnished.

    • Kenroy, yuh focusing on the wrong thing. Is the same heterosexual people who killing people, molesting children and and have vices too.
      The point I’m making is that while people chose to demonize homosexuality, they leaving ‘the backdoor open’ to all the immorality and sin committed by other socially accepted groups.

      It is this myopic view of focusing on the cleaning one spot, when the whole plate dirty that makes no sense.

      Why point out the splinter in your brothers eye, when there is a plank in your own?

    • lol doh rush the brush… literally.

    • Jeremy, homosexuality is not no little splinter as you are saying, it is a NASTY DISGUSTING habit that can lead to all sort of DISEASE.
      I also have the same attitude for those ASSHOLES who kill and molest underaged children. I have no mercy for them. So don’t look for others to justify your nasty and stinking vice. Homosexuality to me is a serious disaster

    • My vice? Lol. I’m perfectly heterosexual with 3 kids and a wife. I’m just not in the judging others business.

    • OK great to know you are not one. But you are part of the problem in this society why everything is getting out of control. We love to watch people destroy themselves and leave them alone because “it’s their rights”
      Homosexuality shud NEVER be a human rights. I’m very disgusted with this entire situation and wish I was living on some other planet. Human being becoming the worst creature in this universe. I’m starting to hate my own human kind

    • No. The problem are people like you who think in one dimension only. Instead of having a balanced, objective discussion, you are ranting and varnishing.
      I used to think the same way, then said, you know what, let me do me, and treat every one with respect- including people I don’t agree with, like you.

    • I have lots of respect for people. I don’t go around disrespecting anymore. I know gay people and I never once disrespect them. But it doesn’t mean that I’m comfortable with their stinkness. It’s my rights to vent my anger about that nastiness and no one can stop me. It is down right nasty to be pushing your dick into a shit hole and calling it love.

    • What you describe there is not respect. That’s just putting up a front.

    • You are straying from the point just to justify stinkness. The topic and issue here is not my respect, it’s about nastiness. A shit hole is nothing clean

    • I’m not straying to justify anything. Just saying what you described is not respect. Anyway – carry on.

    • Why is there this obsession with anal sex? Homosexuality is not anal sex. Anal sex is a sex position. A very risky form sex that a lot of people are very squeamish about and with good reason. If done without any preparation, safety or patience, it can be a very unpleasant experience. That is why in ancient sex manuals it was considered an act reserved only for those who had mastered the sexual arts. Oh and those manuals were about male-female sex.

      Are we going to ignore the fact that heterosexuals engage in it to and always have? It was considered a birth control form of sex long, long, long time. Male-female anal sex is everywhere!

      That’s right, anal sex is not a gay mandate of some kind. Not all gay men engage in it. So why try to paint the picture that this is the definition of being gay? Unless the hope is to use the squeamishness people have about anal sex and make them transfer that feeling to ALL and ANY gay people they meet by assuming that is what the person does. You don’t know that. Nobody knows what people are doing in the privacy of their bedroom.

    • Jessica, you are contradicting yourself.
      You now saying that nobody knows what persons are doing in their bedroom but you are saying that they don’t indulge in anal sex.
      How do you know that they don’t? You are not in their bedroom.
      And, there are no other ways for 2 hard back men to have sex other than anal. If you want to play ignorant and STUPID, I am not, you cannot pull wool over my eyes. Gay men mess in SHIT every time they sex. IT IS GOD DAMN NASTY AND STINK. and you cannot convince me otherwise

    • Kenroy Ambris We know from Sex Research Studies conducted by many different agencies including the CDC, that shows that around 40% of heterosexuals engage in anal sex and around 50% of homosexuals do.

      So this means you cannot know just by meeting someone, whether gay or straight, what they are into in bed.

      You say there are no other ways for 2 hard back men to have sex other than anal? Really? Never heard of oral sex, mutual masturbation, frottage, inter-curual sex?

      I am far from ignorant on the topic.

      As for your assertion that gay men mess and shit every time they have sex, HOW ON EARTH would you know that? There is something called an anal douche and fasting from eating. Just because some men are cavalier and pay no regard to the painstaking process of preparation does not mean the same applies to all.

      This is not about changing YOUR mind. You are 100% free to believe whatever you like. I am only responding to you, for the benefit of those following the conversation so they can see the flaws in your argument and how you represent yourself while arguing.

    • Hear nah. Job ain’t have nothing on Jessica inno. I think you deserve an award!!!

    • Allyuh ease up Kenroy nah. I think we can all agree that many traditional views on sexuality are not necessarily based on reasoning and can even lack a sense of humanity… nevertheless everyone is entitled to his/her own view…

    • Duane, I agree with you that we can agree to disagree but I can also say that theirs no logical reasoning to justify a tough hard back man riding the back of another hard back man. There’s absolutely no sense behind that, it is just stink and dutty. I hope you can agree with me on that one

    • What you wrote makes very little to no sense what so ever. So no I do not agree, but that’s your view so….

    • Duane Campbell Agreed, he is 100% entitled to his feelings and opinions.

    • So you are telling me straight out that you don’t see a problem with a man riding another man back. This means that you are saying that men have the rights to be stink and spread disease. With people like you, this world is hopeless

    • No that’s not what I’m saying, and you obviously don’t know me so that last disrespectful part of your post about “people like me” is a good indication that I should just exit stage left. Enjoy your day sir and carry on.

    • False Dichotomy detected. A false dichotomy is a logical fallacy where someone says, “Because your position is THIS…, it also means you support THAT.” as if the two are the only options.

      Some examples of false dichotomy arguments are:

      So you are against gun ownership, well that means you are for not defending your home and family.

      So you don’t beat your kids, I guess you just agree they should do whatever they want and have no discipline.

      And of course, this one just made: So because you have no issue with men having consensual relations it means you are for the spread of disease.

      One does not follow from the other and the Either/Or being presented is a false dichotomy.

    • Careful Jessica, you are adding sense to the thing- doh add sense to the thing 🙂

    • Just one addition to jessica Joseph point on logic. Sex has the potential to spread disease does that therefore mean it is nasty? Or does that mean that it does spread disease? Additionally, anal sex has the potential to spread disease that does not mean that it does. The point about it being stink or nasty is a subjective one. I might think doubles is nasty that does not make it a truism. So Kenroy is conflating subjectivity and objectivity very important distinction.

    • Also forgot to say he is also conflating correlations with causations.

  16. Do you know that in the same story about Lot people fail to mention that Lot offered his daughters to the men who were at the door.? As far as we know the daughters and the men weren’t married hence Lot was instigating premarital sex for his daughters. It amazing that people are very 1 sided with that story.

  17. You mean the Bible written by men . Why you think it’s called the King James Version? Because God didn’t write shit. Made up bullshit.

  18. The 8 plus billion people who share this planet all originated from one couple and their offspring. Amazing.

  19. Some above wrote that God created Adam and Eve and not Adam/Steve. I’m sorry but if that’s your argument, your religious beliefs do not deserve respect. It’s plain stupidity.

    • Poor man! You don’t have to respect my beliefs. It doesn’t matter if you do or you don’t. Did God create two males or two females to be joined together? Foolish man. Your head is buried in the sand like an ostrich. If you don’t have anything constructive to say just stay off my comments. Nonsense

    • Are you senile? Woman you are on my comment.

    • I am the one that wrote that comment about Adam and Eve.

    • Andrew Gioannetti, I don’t know what you are trying to prove by arguing with heterosexual person. You are not gaining any points here you are on your own with your nastiness. Person’s who believe that it’s your choice to make another man push his dick into your “SHIT TANK” they are also part of the problem that plaguing the world today. Very few people have the BALLS to stand up against people like you and your STINKNESS. So instead, all they do is allow you all nasty people to destroy humanity.
      I wish I could of divorce myself from human, you all are a disgrace with your nastiness

  20. Everyone need to get this straight.. everyone is entitled to their own beliefs.. it’s a free world. Someone is not a homophobic if they disagree with homosexuality.. also, if someone has religious beliefs it must be respected.. if peole who use the bible as their reference don’t condone homosexuality are called bigots and homophobes the the powers that be need to outlaw referencing the bible or owning one. The LGBT community cannot force their beliefs on anyone; they should not.. in the same breath religious people also should not force or abuse anyone who doesnt share their beliefs,

    • Except people who are gay do not “believe” they are gay. They just ARE gay. Not like homophobes who BELIEVE and spread the idea that it’s an abomination. It’s not exactly the same.

    • That’s your contribution? You sound uneducated.

    • Every Gay person I met that admitted it also admitted to being interfered with. They also had poor relationships with parents. Suggesting that their “choice” was normal is to completely ignore the turmoil they went through and continue to. The delusion they suffer is no more normal than being bipolar or depressed.

    • Anna Levi once god dont like it i dont like it soon all who support gays will burn up in a lake of fire run way eh gyal

    • Actually, finding homosexuality morally reprehensible is in fact homophobic. Also, being gay is good.

    • The word gay is inherently misleading. It is surely far from the words origins of lightheartedness.

    • Homophobic btw denotes fear and my perception is lgbt are those who under delusion live with fear of being exposed. Hetero seem to havr no such apprehensions unless they horning.

    • No, actually, being gay is a profoundly good experience and definitely can result in light-heartedness.

      Yes, “homophobic” broken down to its roots denotes “fear of the same”. However, that’s not how language works. Many words that we create in English from Greek and Latin root words do not mean exactly what their roots tell you they mean. This is because English is not Latin or Greek. So, no, the word “homophobic” doesn’t mean “fear of same”, it means distasteful attitudes towards lesbian, gay, bisexual and (often) transgender people because of their (real or imagined) departure from heterosexuality.

      And yes, plenty of LGBT people struggle with being open about their sexuality and/or gender experience. This is because we live in a violently homophobic society where people are killed for being LGBT and are denied housing and work because they are LGBT and are socially ostracized because they are LGBT. Given these consequences it’s in fact a reasonable response to live in fear of being discovered to be LGBT.

    • Actually most lgbt are killed by fellow lgbt sufferers. Go look it up. Distaste is born when a person obviously deluded expects acceptance of their delusion. Eg. Flat earthers expect to be taken seriously despite horribly bad understanding of physics.

    • What information leads you to that conclusion? That most LGBT people are killed by other LGBT people? That’s a very unusual claim.

    • I’m also wondering what about being LGBT is a delusion?

    • If one is a human but thinks he is a duck. Thats a delusion. If a human with male genitalia and dna seeks to believe he is a female then that too is a delusion. If attracted sexually to same sex as opposed to opposite sex then given that sexual intercourse is ordered toward procreation. A person that seeks the disorder is also deluded. Delusions are mental health issues. They do not impair other character trait though they may impact on choices.
      Eg. A person can live a perfectly normal existence despite being deluded into believing the earth is flat. Their contributions in other spheres do not indicate a lack of delusion.

  21. The end result is ……we all know what the bible says yet everyday we all sin everyday,so who are you to debate the rights and wrong of anyone when you sin daily.i to don’t agree with the lifestyle but it’s not my life to live disect or judge,only god can judge,dose talking about it put money In you pocket or give you a bigger house ……….focus on you and your life and your relationship with God cause when he comes ,he is not going to ask or judge you based on another’s life.salvation is an individual thing so before you take out the sliver for someone’s eye please take out the plank from yours

  22. An argument that will live on forever.

  23. Sigh @ grown folk telling other grown folk whom to love.

  24. Akilah give yuh God ah big fat spliff. You’re ah shitty writer.

  25. Please stop giving this person a space in your publication. This is the same person who, in an earlier article, spoke of not having empirical evidence but went on to make several dangerous and careless proclamations and declarations. Not everyone should be given a platform to effuse such tripe. Do better than this.

  26. I worry that “freedom of speech” defences to publishing some material miss the point. Freedom of speech is a given, the question is not whether people have a right to voice their views – it’s whether they should be allowed to exercise that right in a particular forum/ on a particular page. The second question depends on what standard of opinion/debate/comment/readership you want to target/maintain. If freedom of speech was the issue then nothing should be beyond publication here.

    • Correct. I’m having serious concerns about what passes as ‘articles’ on this page. Well, to be frank, it just concerns this particular ‘writer.’
      The fact that she does not respond to the comments is also troubling. If you want a debate, make yourself available to support your points.

    • Jeremy I have a different concern. Ad hominem attacks as rebuttals. That is not ecen worth having her reply. There seems to be a total disregard for civil discourse and debate. If that is accepted then I see no valid reason for her to engage in any debate. Wired needs to clamp down on that.

    • kelvin baldeosingh neither Martin Daly engages in debate on their articles

  27. This isn’t debate. Nor is this article legitimate opinion. It’s a rant. If it was an opinion it would not have argued that God’s word prohibits homosexual behaviour without first arguing that God’s word matters when you delimit human behaviour. Not everything verbalized is an opinion. Sometimes it’s just words. Without telling us why what the Bible says should have any relevance at all, she’s told us what it says on her chosen issue. As a question of editorial judgment what she left out may weigh heavily- but I don’t know how those things work.

  28. I won’t even give this article the privilege of reading it. That would be a waste of my time and mental energy. Very surprised you would choose to publish hate speech on Wired 868, Lasana Liburd. I’m all for debate, but not debate that’s a century or more out of date. Caribbean homophobia comes from the same colonial era that enslaved black people. The Bible was written by the same white men who enslaved black people. Throw off those shackles sister Holder! If the writer’s God is a homophobic god then fuck God. But I suspect if God did exist he/she would not be homophobic and that instead it would be the writer going to hell. Bon voyage sister Holder!

    • oh no you didn’t, back of the class, Pottymouth??‍???‍?

    • Don’t insult me by referring to me as your sister first of all. I have more sense and class than u ever will. Secondly, most misunderstand God, we think that because God is loving, forgiving, merciful and patient, he excuses wrong behavior. But God is also a just God, and that is the part most of us forget. And because he is just, he has to punish sin. Let me educate you, that while God is a God of peace, he is also a God of war. Exodus 15:3 tells us that. That verse reminds us of God’s judgmental side. Matthew 10:34 states, Verse “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.” Therefore, if God has to wage war for the sake of what is right, he will do it. In addition, the last verse makes clear, that sometimes, some human beings will have to separate themselves from others of their kind, for the sake of what is right. There goes your argument.

      Regarding homophobic, neither I nor God is disturbed by it. It is a word created by gay lobbyists to make those of us who know its wrong feel badly. I am, therefore, unfazed.

    • Josh your diatribe expresses a poverty of character. Ad hominem is a show of both weakness and ignorance. Unimpressed.
      Lassana Liburd what say you to this level of conduct?

    • Akilah Holder, explain to me what is wrong with homosexuality? Leaving aside what your “God” (white colonialists) have told you…

    • Low level reply. Apparently you fell out the tree onto your poorly developed nervous system. See no cuss but you still got insulted. Get a vocab instead of just grunting expletives.

    • Guess its not the intellectual matter you write on.

    • I’m a professional writer. You, on the other hand, are a bigoted c**t.

  29. How ppl know what God sanction?
    You have a direct line to god?
    You email him?
    It is 2018 stop judging ppl
    Leave that to god
    If a man like a man he business
    A woman love a woman. Her business
    Worry about incest and child pornography study that

  30. Everybody know that 90% of the population going to hell for wearing polyblends right?

    “You shall not wear cloth of wool and linen mixed together.” Deuteronomy 22:11

    Bible thumpers are very selective in their scripture shaming.

  31. “For instance, Genesis 19:1-11 shows clearly that God frowns on homosexuality. God is preparing, in this passage of scripture, to destroy the City of Sodom and He sends a couple of angels in human form to rescue Lot and his family. When Lot invites the angels to pass the night at his home, some of the homosexuals in the city show up at Lot’s house seeking to have sex with his guests. The angels pull Lot into the house and blind the homosexuals.”

    But in that same story about Lot, Genesis 19:8, Lot offers up his virgin daughters to the men who came knocking, and say take dem instead. So tell me what is being advocated there?

  32. hate….is not from God. Thats all.

    • I agree Clint. Silencing contrary views though, does no one any good. If one’s only argument is “because God said so” then I think the precariousness of one’s reasoning is adequately exposed.

  33. Lasana as publisher you provide the forum. IMHO you are right to publish. Look at the rich conversation you have generated.

    As Mill has said in “On Liberty”:

    1. Unpopular opinions may be right

    Sometimes the things that we and nearly everyone around us take for granted are flat-out wrong. If this happens to be the case, but we do not permit people to openly state their disagreement and make a case for it, then there is much less of a chance that we ever will realize our errors. “To deny this,” says Mill, “is to assume our own infallibility” (p. 64).

    2. Even opinions that are mostly wrong are often partly right

    Rarely are our opinions completely right, even when nearly everyone around us agrees with us about them. In Mill’s words, “the general or prevailing opinion on any subject is rarely or never the whole truth” (p.64). Being presented with contrary opinions, even when they are mostly in the wrong, often helps us to notice what isn’t quite right about what we believe, which we can then work on fixing.

    3. Even opinions that are completely wrong challenge dogmatism…

    Even when our views happen to be completely right, that doesn’t mean that the reasons we have for holding them are good; sometimes, in fact, we are not able to articulate reasons for our views at all. But in such cases our beliefs are not justified. Clashing with contrary views, even completely wrong ones, forces us to search for and articulate good reasons for why we are right and our opponents are wrong. Without this clash, most of us will hold our views “in the manner of a prejudice, with little comprehension or feeling of its rational grounds” (p. 64).

    4. … and prevent our beliefs from turning into empty affirmations.

    Without any challenge, our opinions—even if they are correct—will become dogmatic, and our affirmation of them will in turn become a “mere formal profession” (p. 64) that we recite with no understanding. But this strips truth of the power to actually benefit the character of those who affirm it. It is only in understanding why particular things are true that we make them our own and feel their full force. Having to argue against contrary views, even when those views are completely wrong, ensures that we assent by reason rather than rote, with all of the benefits that brings.

  34. From the time anyone says God say, walk away from that argument. I will spare myself this read.

  35. If the writer has any arguments other than “is so cuz I feel so” or an appeal to authority (the authority here being an old book…) I don’t see them.

    Perhaps I should use Ms Holder’s own style of argument and remind her of 1 Timothy 2:11-12 “A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.

  36. akilah holder before you write and pretend to be gods most holy and righteous child, your ex co workers are still waiting for you to do the “right thing” and repay the 12000.00 you stole and disappeard from the sou sou. And wired868 you can delete my comment and block me I don’t really care but right is right the same way she’s saying being gay is not of god, stealing is also in that category so you need to screen your writers for their own hidden secrets before you post their crap. Btw she wasn’t no child of god writer at newsday

  37. akilah holder before you write and pretend to be gods most holy and righteous child, your ex co workers are still waiting for you to do the “right thing” and repay the 12000.00 you {allegedly} stole and disappeard from the sou sou.

  38. When Akilah wrote her last post, I jump on she back. A Christian I found what she wrote to be out of context, I found it disrespectful- to believers and non-believers alike, I found her language distasteful, I found it un-Christian. Here I can find no fault. She has stated what God has said about an issue, and she has stated her support for Word. I cannot fault her.

    • “She has stated what God has said about an issue…”

      More like she has stated what she *believes* God said about the issue, or just stated what is contained in the Bible. Interpretation, comprehension, adherence, and so on is another thing.

    • Exactly Nigel Myers. It is beyond arrogant to claim to speak for God. The honest and humble thing is to say, “This is what I believe God says.” The moment someone starts claiming they are speaking for God and knows exactly what God thinks about this, that, him, her, you, me, they are trying to elevate themselves above you and I as well as cut off other people’s own personal spiritual journey by trying to dictate how others should pursue their path. It is the road to extremism and fundamentalism. It is saying, “Only I have God on my side!” others different from me do not.

  39. Here we go again… but I’ll do myself a favour and not read it this time. Clearly, this child is looking for fame. #inotable

  40. I dislike all forms of injustice including judging a book by its cover or an author by their reputation or a reformed criminal by their past. I read the article after reading the comments here, I expected much more hell and damnation than I encountered. Of course it would have been a more useful opinion piece if she had found facts to quote vs just the bible because the old testament we “know” is not meant to be taken literally anymore – Jesus Christ of Nazareth himself overturned many of the writings. The author quoted the writings of the new testament as well, from the letters of Paul et al. I don’t know who could be convinced with arguments like that since most people like to put the bible in a neat little box that gets opened once in a while for church and is not applied to daily life. So…what are we in fact scared of, that this article will incite further anti-LGBTQ behaviour by the “religious right” or other people just looking for an excuse to abuse those they disagree with? If anyone takes up the cause of restricting the rights of anyone (or worse abusing them) based on an article that is not actually a call to action, the author cannot be blamed – those people need to be dealt with (and are in fact more troubling) but stifling free discourse is not the way to do it. Akilah Holder was not insulting, nor was she attempting to vilify – she was attempting to disabuse. Should she be abused for that? Disagreement is always healthy, especially from “people who can’t stop” you (Quoting “House MD”) so let’s be reasonable.

  41. Having read your article, I totally and unequivocally accept and stand by your statements.

  42. Please no personal insults Kwesi.

  43. You keep dreaming. Tell yourself whatever comforts you. Won’t change the reality. And I have no problem being an idiot for my beliefs just as you are being an idiot for yours.

  44. Please do. You sound like an idiot.

    Also… marriage is… a secular and legal ceremony in the world of men. God don’t write wills. K, idiot? Lol!

  45. “And that neither Mr Harnarine nor Mr Khan nor anyone else of their ilk any longer harbours any illusions about how strong is the Living God’s active disapproval of their perverted lifestyles.”

    In reality, Ms Holder, it is merely your (and other holier-than-thou persons) disapproval, which you are ascribing to God. How dare you presume to know what is right or wrong for other people, based upon your own repugnance?

  46. I write solely from the point of view as a Jumbie, with permission to be spokes-Jumbie given by all the other Jumbies I know…

    As Jumbies, we know that Gawd doesn’t exist. How do we know this? Well, the fact that we exist is proof in and of itself. If people go to Heaven or Hell when they die, the existence of Jumbies – ‘souls’ lingering on this plane after death – would be an impossibility. Yet, here we are, in neither Heaven nor Hell… although my fellow Jumbies jess brought meh attention to the fact they consider Trinbago as Hell now, wot with murders and serious crime rising and crooks running around in Parliament, ahem, dey say all day long… oho, dey say nighttime too.

    Buh back to de point ah was trying tuh make… sorry, ah have to speak de dialect, as meh brethren Jumbies pointing out… seems like de Commissioner ah Police doh know de Queen’s English, so for him to understand, ah have tuh drop to he level… anyhow, de point is dat Gawd doh exist. Take it from de Jumbies who praying long time to get into Heaven, we know dat prayers doh wuk either. Ah know, ah know, dat Kevin Baldeosingh fella go say dat is only evidence dat prayers doh wuk, not dat Gawd doh exist… leh him blow dat out he…

    Buh I digressing too much… dis Holder ‘oman eh know she place. De Trinbago Constitution clearly (yes, I read de damn ting, sometimes ah does see stupidness like this begging fuh ah rebuttal) says: yuh have a right to freely tink anything yuh want, buh yuh right to express wha’ yuh tinking is limited. Dat seems to me should extend to dotish (ah have tuh borrow dis tremendous Trini word!) thinking, like dis ‘oman…

    Ah mean, who is she tuh say dat de Bible is de only true ‘Word’ ah Gawd? Look, allyuh have any idea how much (too many tuh count hence de use ah ‘much’) Jumbies it have from other religions floating around? look, is billions dead and no Heaven, or Hell… common sense alone will tell yuh everytime one ah allyuh dead, is ah next Jumbie floating in Limbo (no, is not ah dance) waiting for ah final solution.

    Buh is only after allyuh dead and join up wid we here allyuh realise it eh have nothing beyond deading… by then, it too late. Once ah Jumbie, forever ah Jumbie. Ah dropping de mic here, dem other Jumbies reminding meh is Karaoke time now… and tuh tell Shamfa…

  47. As usual, the author uses religion as a tool to defend hatred and bigotry. Our Nation is a melting pot of different races, cultures, religions, sexual beings. We engage in secular democracy in order to respect each other’s life choices. One of our National watchwords is indeed TOLERANCE which this writer decides to ignore completely and attack a minority, bashing us with her bible! A bible that espouses LOVE as its central tenet! She cherry picks quotes to suit her vile homophobia but obviously ignores others that treat women as less important than men. Well luckily her judgements and bigotry will have No Impact on my High Court challenge of our discriminatory “buggery” laws which were bequeathed to us by our Colonial Slave Masters and FYI Miss Holder, your Christian religion was ALSO bequeathed to you by your slave masters! My landmark case will be successful, and Trinbagonian LGBT ️‍ citizens WILL FIND AN EQUAL PLACE in OUR COUNTRY regardless of your hatred and bigotry because human rights belong to ALL HUMAN BEINGS!

  48. As usual, the author uses religion as a tool to defend hatred and bigotry. Our Nation is a melting pot of different races, cultures, religions, sexual beings. We engage in secular democracy in order to respect each other’s life choices. One of our National watchwords is indeed TOLERANCE which this writer decides to ignore completely and attack a minority, bashing us with her bible! A bible that espoused LOVE as its central tenet! She cherry picks quotes to suit her vile homophobia but obviously ignores others that treat women as less important than men. Well luckily her judgements and bigotry will have No Impact on my High Court challenge of our discriminatory “buggery” laws which were bequeathed to us by our Colonial Slave Masters and FYI Miss Holder, your Christian religion was ALSO bequeathed to you by your slave masters! My landmark case will be successful, and Trinbagonian LGBT citizens WILL FIND AN EQUAL PLACE in OUR COUNTRY regardless of your hatred and bigotry because human rights belong to ALL HUMAN BEINGS!

  49. So Lasana Liburd, if I wrote a well-reasoned response that was civil that took apart this article point by point and used ACTUAL biblical scholarship to refute the really amateur eisegesis used, which is the worst possible way to treat with scripture and leads to all kinds of atrocities, would you post it?

    N.B Good biblical students use exegesis i.e. drawing out the meaning from a text in accordance with the context and discoverable meaning of its author. They look at the histoical, original language, cultural context as well.

    Eisegesis is a lazy approach to the Bible used by many Evangelical sects today. They basically just pull a verse and quote it for how it seems to read at the very surface level, completely out of its context.

    Akilah did a lot of eisegesis. I am willing to do the harder work of proper exegeisis of the very same scriptures she quoted, will you post it in Wired868?

    • Jessica, please send it to editor@wired868.com. And I certainly will.
      We usually advise writers to aim for between 400 to 800 words. But if it is necessary to go over that to finish your point then by all means.

    • Lasana, I’m thinking about writing one and give you to publish also, my style. I promise that after publishing you will either become famous or another salman Rushdie.

    • Solid exigesis will never find approval of the misguided lgbt….. disorders/delusions.
      False teachers may misuse scrptures for different agendas but I challenge anyone using a Bible that has not been adulterated with modern speak to find any approval in scripture for these misguided “lifestyles”.
      In all Jesus’ meetings with known sinners, He received them with compassion and said Go and sin no more.
      I challenge anyone to prove he would do any diffferent for the misguided lgbt…. folks

    • Lasana Liburd Thanks, you’ll have something very well-researched and info-rich by the end of today. I will have to break it into two parts.

    • Chris Mark D Solid exegesis will reveal the bible’s coverage of same-sex behaviors are =/= homosexuality and are not relevant to most homosexuals who aren’t part of a rape mob or pederasts or temple prostitutes. And I will be using the original Hebrew and Greek terminology and research only the biblical contemporary literature of that age for verification of idiomatic use. I will also expose how man has tampered with the meanings of words in scripture to support an anti-gay stance.

    • Bring it on. You could come with two or two million. I will readily repudiate every false notion. Jesus has room for all sinners but none for their sin.

    • Btw it is noteworthy you say greek since greeks viewed the practice as healthy. Their language never paints it in a negative. Words therefore must also be in the context of how they were meant to be understood.
      Anyway go do what you can.

    • Jesus wasn’t that concerned with whether someone was innately homosexual or not. Far more concerned with men who divorced their wives and married a second one.

    • That was the error of His contemporaries. However the prostitute and the adulteress were both told go and sin no more. He also referred to scribes and Pharisees as vipers so he was pretty much well rounded in how he approached sin.

    • The sin btw is not the inclination/temptation. It is the giving in to it.

    • Lasana Liburd, it’s been sent to you. Cheers!

    • Jessica, I am anxious to see what you are going to pull from the Bible verses that state explicitly that homosexuality is wrong. Only fools will be attracted to your argument. God bless!

    • Amazing! Amazing you know, amazing! You are the Lord’s creation. You know more than him? Smh at people like yourselves. Amazing!

    • Akilah Holder What is the Hebrew or Greek word for “homosexual” in the bible? There is none. Because the term “homosexual” and its definition was created long, long after the bible was compiled, edited, canonized. If you have a bible with the word “homosexual” in it, go check the edition date. I will bet you a million bucks it was edited after 1945. Go do it now.

      Man tampers with man-made writings. That much is clear from my study of scripture.

      No, I don’t claim to know more than some concept of a Lord or Yahweh or anyone’s religious deity. I simply query the writings of men who claim to be speaking on behalf of who they believe to be God. Why shouldn’t I? Man-made writings attributed to God was used to justify all kinds of atrocities against women, against my African ancestors, against indigenous peoples, against so many people.

      I will always support the side of Universal Human Rights over people’s religious assertions about what they believe God is or what God says.

    • Thats not enough Jessica. Speak to the meaning of the word replaced.

    • Chris Mark D It will all be explained. But the meaning of the words replaced are not synonyms for homosexual either. Language does not evolve like that. Just like there are words in German to describe things we have not defined with a word yet, the term “homosexual” defines something the people back in Greco-Roman times in another culture never thought to define because it never occurred to them.

    • For instance the word translated in scripture in first corinthians 13 as love was actually a word that meant charity. The word translated as witchcraft was pharmakaea which were those that procurred pessaries which were the means to cause miscarriages (No surprise then that the Catholic church is against abortion and contraception).
      You havent unfolded scripture all you seem intent on is to deny its fullness.

    • Is there any particular reason we jumped to Corinthians 13?

    • Homosexuality was part of greco roman culture and was accepted as love between men. The Jews aand early Christians rejected that cultural norm. That can be seen in the writings of many of the early doctors of the Church. You left the Bible then do further research into the teachers like Ignatius and Augustine. Dont stop there. Keep going. Of course this presumes you actually want a fair understanding to prevail.

    • I jumped to explain that its not enough to say that wasnt the word. You need to bring the original word and open up the fullness of neanings attached.

    • In other words expand it. Its not as cut and dry as saying what the word didnt mean.Dive into all it did.

    • I have actually, and I disgree with both on many of their opinions. Which of course, I am totally allowed to do!

    • Hey, since you are a big fan of Augustine, do you also agree with his stance on prostitution?

    • I am against prostitution whether its the sexual or political.

    • Ah, good so you disagree with Augustine too. Good to see, you make up your own mind about things. So do I. For that reason at some point or another I piss off those on both sides of the argument on many issues.

    • Augustine is only one writer out of a multitude. More recently we had Theology of the Body by John Paul II.
      I believe no flood of words is without fault and the Bible itself, like the Vedas and other wisdom writings has to have errors as all humans fail in pride.
      When held in the light of science and medicine writings either are dispelled as useless or wise. Lgbt lifestyles have not proven healthy, safe or sane. Relationships of that kind are more violent (perhaps a result of multiplying those in the relationship living with testosterone/estrogen). Somehow males and females do better long term.
      Anyway I digress. Truth is I hold them as imperfect teachers. All had flaws. However the question is why did disapproval of same sex relationships turn up in their writings and why did judahism disapprove of it to the point of recommending stoning.

    • Hold up! You have some glaring errors in the premises behind your questions. But before I go through them, let me say I do agree with you that ancient writings have flaws and there is much to be learned in the flaws as well as the few nuggets of wisdom that hold up to hindsight and new information. The teachings of the Hebrews were not always ethically sound.

      But, where we part ways, intellectually is where you make the assumption that the bible is talking about the kind of same-sex relationships as you just defined them.

      People choose which cultures’ morals they prefer and you are entitled to choose those you just mentioned. Just as I am entitled to choose not to. No ancient culture was perfect as you said.

      Well, I see ample proof that dysfunction, violence, and the like does not only happens on the LGBT side of things. Everyone is trying to do the best with the cards they are dealt in life. Some who cannot cope with their challenges, channel it in very destructive ways and that applies especially to any minority that is marginalized. However many LGBT people find a way to bring a lot of positivity to their communities and the world. The kind of premise behind your reasoning is also the same used by White Supremacists to try to paint all minorities with the same brush. It is the first step to “Othering” fellow human beings. Once you do that, it makes violence all the more easier.

      Now, as for you question about why some cultures frowned on various same-sex sexual behavior or only certain ones, there is a very easy socio-economic and geo-political reason why.

    • I havent denied misguided lgbt ability to contribute but like any felusion they will suffer at their own hands and by the hands of those who misunderstand their plight.
      That said, the percentages of violence between lgbt suffers is more than double hetero rates. Partly due to complexities of the relationships and partly because two mancrab bound to fight.
      You can suggest that its partly due to socieoeconomic or political but there is also the factor of disgust.
      Judahism definitely spoke out against homosexuality, incest, and paedophillia. To expect a religion spawned from its bosom to accept it is remarkably contradictory.
      But do continue.

    • It seems the only LGBT people you have met are those who are violent and dealing with their emotional baggage (which everyone has) in negative ways. That is unfortunate, truly. You are almost like certain white people in the USA I have spoken to who have only ever met uneducated, poor, criminal black people and love to cast all black people in that light and use statistics about crime, delinquency, teen pregnancy, single parenthood in the black community not to try to understand the issues affecting those but to support a discriminatory or supremacist stance that ALL black people are inherently inferior for being black.

      From my decades of experience on this earth, I know fully well that both heterosexuals and homosexual people have struggles to face in life. If I were to list all the ills affecting the heterosexual population, it would take too much time. Suffice to say, I belong to more than one group dealing with those victimized in heterosexual and homosexual relationships. If I hated heterosexuals, I could just as easily dwell on the number of women beaten or killed by their partners, impregnated and left to fend for themselves, the men exploited or emotionally manipulated by women, the growing number of men who are angry at women, the rates of HIV in places like the Caribbean and sub-Saharan Africa etc. But what would be the point of this?

      Why not focus on helping all marginalized communities and looking at the positive examples of them that managed to have a productive, happy life where they did not abuse others or resort to crime, or violence etc.

      I am always wary of people who misuse statistics, not to understand a situation but to denigrate a group of humans.

      Judaism does not address homosexuality. It addresses specific same-sex interactions: gang rape, temple prostitution and if you wanted to be extra conservative in translation you can extend it to anal sex, which is understandably a disgusting premise to that culture given both their kosher laws, their primitive views about sperm at the time and the fact that anal sex was used in pagan sex rites of the people around them.

      However, none of those things = homosexuality.

      Simply put you and I are speaking of two completely different things when we speak about homosexuality. I am speaking about the medical definition of it. You assign the title of homosexuality to any and every same-sex interaction, which is making a big assumption those involved are actually homosexual.

      No, it is not contradictory to expect any culture/religious ideology to evolve as people figure out more information on the subject and grow more enlightened about human rights, as many Jews and Judeo/Christian sects have on this matter and many others like slavery, women’s autonomy etc.

    • Let me be clear I have no beef with my friends or their struggles as real as they are but merely saying that heteros have problems does not preclude or deny that lgbt sufferers are in a state of delusion.
      You are yet to expand what the words meant or why they were used. Secondly you are still shooting at a bible when science itself has never provided any backing for born this way claims.
      The fact that some lgbt have converted to hetero ought to present an argument against any biological backing.
      Never the less, do continue.

    • Btw marriage was always purposed towards raising children whether as a social contract or religious. The same sex union therefore can never have that intrinsic identity thus there is no right to marry a same sex as it can never be a marriage.
      They are however totally free to create a legal partnership. They have the right to life and thus protection from persecution. They do not however have the right for anyone to recognise their lifestyle as more than a delusion. They cannot force people to avoid expressing distaste or disgust no matter how tactless it seems. To force someone to accept them as legit is to bully them. The same way no one should force them to become hetero. It must be their choice. Otherwise you are denying people the right to speak freely. I however dont believe ad hominem serves any use to bring healing. Therefore my friendships remain cordial and helpful. Choose your course but dont even attempt to choose denial as viable.

    • Chris Mark D I have expanded in a very detailed article submitted to Wired.

    • Your view that LGBT people are deluded is your opinion and you are welcome to it. Nobody is forcing you to change your mind.

    • There is no medically verifiable evidence of any confirmed homosexual person becoming heterosexual. Even so called ex-gays still admit they have sexual attraction to the same sex. There are also far more ex-ex gays who realized the whole thing was a sham and they cannot force themselves to feel sexual attraction to the opposite sex. It seems it is only successful for bisexuals who are already capable of sexual attraction to both genders.

    • You are free to express distaste and disgust or even make a nuisance of yourself in doing so as many who disagree with LGBT people do, often with various micro-aggressions to ensure others feel “less than”. It has never stopped people from being who they are. It has however convinced more and more people over the years that those who cannot treat their LGBT neighbor the way they would want to be treated, have no moral high ground whatsoever!

    • Get off the soapbox.
      My opinion is just as valid and truthful as their feelings. Only difference is my objective truths cannot be recanted. There can be no medically verified homosexual because there is no medical test to say which is which.
      Your point therefore is totally useless.

  50. Calling someone a bigot does not mean you are being bigoted. That logic does not follow. If a person calls a KKK person a bigot it does not mean the person is bigoted themselves against the person’s right to be a bigot. If someone believes all LGBT people are evil by nature and should be denied their human rights, it is very fair to call such a person a bigot.

    Would I ill-treat or seek to deny the author their freedom of speech or their equal rights, even if I strongly disagree with them and believe their views are bigoted? Of course not. That is what tolerance is.

  51. Additionally lots of folks are jumping all over the writer about being a bigot while not realising that by virtue of their responses they are displaying the same bigotry. Quite interesting.

  52. Nigel Clement Agreed 100%. The way to deal with different opinions that are not rooted in sound reason or facts is to debate and discuss not suppress.

  53. bigot | ˈbɪɡət |
    noun
    a person who is intolerant towards those holding different opinions

  54. As you mentioned Trevor Noah, he did a really great piece on another ignorant anti-gay person, a prominent politician in Kenya by the name of Ezekiel Mutua whose reaction to two male lions in their wildlife preserve who were seen engaging in same-sex behavior (as many mammalian species have been observed to do in the wild by biologists) was beyond comical and ignorant. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=210&v=997CnhOlodQ

  55. Ah! Not the kind of article I would choose to read. According to my dimpled Trevor Noah who I wished I had bounced up this carnival….Ain’t nobody got time for that. I imagine the comments on this to be as varied and vexatious as I figure the article would be. So happy Valentines to everybodeee❤

  56. It’s an issue we’re living with in the world so I don’t see this as taboo to post or is it only to be spoken of in whispers and behind closed doors? I agree that people have a choice in the the lifestyle they choose. What I don’t understand is why the need to have this union blessed by the very God who calls this lifestyle an abomination and states that those engaging in it have no part in his kingdom. He won’t bless it. Just have a civil union and be done with it. Btw, do the Hindus, muslims and other religions perform same sex marriages? I must google it.

  57. Most of the first world have debated homosexuality extensively. Their gay citizens were put through a barrage of judgement and sometimes hate filled speech from people who were determined to deny their right to love and be loved in a consensual adult relationship. Eventually the population settled it by a vote. Gay marriage was legalised and the population moved on. We are all sinners in one way or another. If there is a God I hope he has mercy on us all.

    • God just don’t have mercy on us just like that. You have to repent of your sins and mean it so Good will forgive you.

    • Not because some states legalize same sex marriage it’s right. God gave us Adam and Eve and not Adam and Steve. The Bible said it’s wrong so it’s wrong. Don’t try to sugar coat something that is wrong in the sight of God. We will eventually pass like Sodom and Gomorroh.

    • I respect your right to follow your beliefs. I also believe in basic human rights regardless of sexual orientation as long as it is between consenting adults.

    • The whole scenario is wrong. God gave us some rules to follow and there is a punishment if we don’t follow it so how can a right thinking human being agree with same sex marriage. This is Shameless and disgusting. If they want to do this nasty things keep it to themselves and don’t flaunt it in the public. It makes some people like me want to puke. If they don’t repent their judgement day will come. Disgusting!

    • Lydia Joseph I respect your right to your opinion based on your interpretation of scripture. I don’t interpret it the same way.

    • Hahaha! Yes l agree we are all sinners without a doubt but you don’t sit and wallow in sin. You try to get out of it not remain in it. It doesn’t matter what or who you are trying to justify but same sex marriage is a sin and will always remain a sin. God frowned on that. Read your Bible about Sodom and Gomorroh. If you are a Christian you wouldn’t be saying such nonsense. If you aren’t one then make an effort to straighten your life with God. I don’t usually argue about politics and religion but when l see someone posting nonsense it about such things l have to.

    • I have considered your comments, respect your right to your opinion and have decided that I stand by my original post. Thank you for your concern for my soul.

  58. Lasana Liburd

    Like any other news source, Wired868 sometimes shares letters that we might disagree with in part. Or we might disagree with in whole.
    The idea is not to promote divisiveness and discord. But to listen to our neighbors and, when necessary, to challenge or even dismantle their arguments.
    We promise never to drown our readers in toxic, vexatious arguments. But we would never want to be an echo chamber either and are confident in the maturity of most of our readers to rise to the challenge.

  59. Like any other news source, Wired868 sometimes shares letters that we might disagree with in part. Or we might disagree with in whole.
    The idea is not to promote divisiveness and discord. But to listen to our neighbors and, when necessary, to challenge or even dismantle their arguments.
    We promise never to drown our readers in toxic, vexatious arguments. But we would never want to be an echo chamber either and are confident in the maturity of most of our readers to rise to the challenge.

    • THAT THIRSTY BITCH SAID… she had an issue with gay men respectfully sharing their peace…

      So she decided to spread divisiveness and discord. Do you READ or just spewing off at the fingers?

    • Usually people resort to insults when they don’t feel confident of their ability to properly express themselves.
      Do better than that. Don’t try to fight hate with hate or intolerance with intolerance.

    • Lasana, I agree on advice as well.

    • You have a greater responsibility as part of the media. You consciously and subconsciously shape the public’s views and influence how the public treats with such issues. Your response, in my view, shows that you do not understand your responsibility to the public. I’m really disappointed in wired868 for continuing to publish this persons “work”. The article of Jan 23rd was terrible enough. I once respected this site for its balanced reporting (many times I did not agree with the articles) but this Holder person should not be given a platform to pass off ignorance as “writing” or an “article”. Not every opinion ought to be published because it can be. I don’t think I can continue to follow wired868 anymore. I’m truly truly disappointed.

    • Dominique, if I didn’t think our readers could handle a few verses from Leviticus without having their minds blown then I wouldn’t think much of our readers.
      I respect your view and I thank you for sharing it. But believe me when I say that the easier thing for me to do would be to screen stuff that might upset my readers.
      Like you said, I might already be losing readers as a result. But I believe the best way for us to advance as a people is to understand each other–good and bad–and try to find a way to arrive at consensus. And I don’t see how we can get there without dialogue.
      I’m sorry to have offended you but that is why we published this view although I myself do not agree with it.

    • Lasana Liburd I appreciate your comments (here and below) with respect to your reasons for publishing the piece (I am being very generous in using the term piece). I do not have an issue with her quoting scripture or using it as her justification for her views. She is entitled to her opinion just like I am to mine. My problem, however, is with the promotion of views that are dangerous and potentially harmful to us as a society and a people. It is divisive. I appreciate that without differing views we can become complacent and I appreciate a good argument myself but this is not that. This is an emotive “piece” and totally unbalanced. It serves no purpose in progressing any sort of useful dialogue between different factions of society. Just like her 23rd January article, she is judging with no empirical backing. Moreover, she has missed the most important tenet of Christianity (upon which she bases her argument) what’s next? Racist rants in the interest of journalism? Promoting rape culture? Violence against women? Victim blaming? Where will you draw the line? If this is your philosophy so be it. I wish you and your website the best in the future. I say no more on this topic.

  60. checkout James: 4:12; Hebrews 13:1- 5; John 8:7-11; Romans 1:26-28

  61. Which God?
    The same God that created you, created me.
    All men are equal.
    What anyone CHOOSES to do with any orifice with any other consenting adult, is no one’s business.
    Don’t put God in yuh bigotry and hatred.
    The things I want to say bout this assness Lasana Liburd…. and worse yet quoting the Bible?
    Constantine’s political tool? The Bible?
    “Close to the Church and far from God” my grandmother (the Reverand).

    • Just as expected. Why am I not surprised this will be your stance?

    • You looking for trouble with your ignorant ass, Kenroy.

    • Why you on my case? I’m straight, I’m not of you. I have a beautiful wife next to me. Find some other man to cling on to and leave me alone please

    • Kenroy has proven himself time and time again to be an intolerant bigot, Andrew.

    • ….. no one said you weren’t straight : …

    • I feel sorry for your wife. You appear very insecure.

    • I’m always confused by men that feel the need to proclaim they’re straight and married so loudly and quickly………

    • There’s nothing that you all can say to get under my skin. My self confidence almost touching the sky. I’m very happy, comfortable contented, healthy and lots more. And most of all I sleep with a wife. So to hell with you all

    • Kenroy Ambris The very next time you see me, be it in the road or anywhere any function (as has happend in the past) Remember your eyes take that extra 4.8 seconds to linger on my breasts, after the 3 seonds you utlilise to inhale my aura, after the extra long 2 minute tun neck to watch my firm, blemishless glowing skin, and the Sahara desert thirstyness you adhere to strain of my dress strugfling to calm the vigor of my thigh bump… remember fornication is a sin, coveting is a sin, lust is a sin and lying?
      Lying … same sin.

    • Why do people who obsesses over gays have this paranoia about others assuming they are gay too? I’m gonna drop this right here:

    • Rachel Price lol, all I can say to you is that you are not my type. I’ve much better to lust over, I even marry one. If you were my type then I would of marry you. But unfortunately for you I did not.

    • I will tell you Rachel Price, what I just said to another who commented. While God is a God of love, he is also just. And for that reason, he will also judge and punish sin. Exodus 15:3 tells us that God is a God of war. Matthew 10:34 tells us that he didn’t come to bring peace, but a sword to separate the just from unjust. The sinner from those who have repented.

      So while indeed, we are all created equal, for we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God and he loves us alike, he will let go those who have not obeyed him. He loves the murderer, but doesn’t mean he will not punish the murderer. He loves the pedophile, but doesn’t mean if he doesn’t repent, he will not punish him. God loves sinners, but he will punish those who have sinned.

      Are you sure you graduated from St. Francois Girls’ College? Bc your logic is very flawed. You’re not making the logical deductions. And I have to get on so, because I am tired of these sloppy, arrogant arguments by people like yourself who can’t see reason and who don’t have the moral authority to guide people. Yuh don’t.

      Go ahead and open your mouth. Go ahead and open it, your famous for doing that, but I have made my point. Wisdom tells me not to argue with fools, so now that I am done making my point, may God have mercy on you.

    • I have no problem if it is an actual extraterrestrial, supernatural, Higher Power coming down and doing the punishing.

      But that is not what is happening is it? It is other HUMAN BEINGS who are the ones asserting they have authority from that deity to bully or oppress or deny other people their Universal Human Rights. They are NOT a Higher Power greater than me, him, her or any other human. So when they start trying to elevate themselves above other human beings, and want people to believe their words based on no evidence of any supernatural or Omnipotent authorization, I will speak up!

      Those who claim to be speaking for God need to put up and provide evidence. So far, all they can provide are their shallow interpretations of flawed man-made writings.

    • Jessica, my problem is that these bullers are producing all sorts of diseases and spreading it to innocent people. How the ass you can push your dick into a shit hole and feel comfortable doing it? That’s complete nastiness, you are spreading sickness

    • Akilah Holder don’t come for me…. go twiddle yuh thumbs over someone else, quick.
      Metioning my alma mata is supposed to do what? Show some snippet of knowledge abour me?
      Chile I’m happy in my skin, are you joyous in yours?

      I live, I love and best of all I learn.
      You know my age?
      I’ve been here for more than a minute.
      How I live is none of your business.
      Who I love is none of your business.
      Who I live, love and share my body with is none of your business. No business of anyone but me.

      I reiterate, the God that created me, created you.
      You speak of sin, as if judging my actions, my life, my choices for my life isn’t a sin as well.
      When were you appointed & annointed anyone’s Savior ?

      You quoteth the Bible so freely to add credence to you insipid rant & reasoning.
      Tell me do you live EXACTLY according to this book ?
      For Leviticus 19/19 states “You shall keep my statutes. You shall not let your cattle breed with a different kind. You shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed, nor shall you wear a garment of cloth made of two kinds of material.
      I assume you’ve never worn spandex? Cotton panties with elastic? Or a silk lined bra with wire support?
      Leviticus is indeed an interesting read, I again assume you do not eat of the “cloven hoof”, you’ve never had oxtail?

      I speak freely, for that “freely speakin” my cup runneth over.
      You have no moral authority to contest my morals, ketch yuhself.
      You see my aroggance I see your envy. Ask thyself how come this duncy, loud, uncouth, vile Rachel Price is known and blameless, lily white Souled Akilah Holder is a little known blogger ?
      Your gnarly fingers failing to gain attention from your keyboard.

      Hating on someone for who they choose to love & share their bodies with is a sin.
      Don’t spit in the sky, guess where it falls?

      Om Namay Shiva.

    • Lasana Liburd yuh see when it reach to people calling others “buller” Kenroy Ambris… I gone.
      I know where this assness heading, and that direction isn’t a positive one.

    • The only reason I’m in this conversation at all is because I hate bullying. I cannot stand the hypocrisy. You upset when a white man treat you as inferior but this is okay}? Kenroy, act your age, open a book… Something!!!!!

    • Kenroy Ambris In the Caribbean heterosexual people lead HIV Transmission and young women are the fastest growing group contracting the disease. I’ve worked with UNAIDS, and I’ve worked with sexually active men, both homosexual and heterosexual and they are BOTH spreading the disease.

      Men are the main transmitters of HIV, whether homosexual or heterosexual. You will find the careless, irresponsible and selfish with regards to their sexual health and those of their partners on BOTH SIDES of the Kinsey Scale. So much so the ladies have to be putting down def poetry about it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ctwyd9KgID4

    • Rachel , my apologies if it offended you but I’m still passionate about it. Most people have it in their minds but fraid to use it. You of all people are very outspoken and say it as you see it so I’m very surprised that you have issues with my comments

    • Little known people don’t generate this much discussion. Kenroy is right. Why such a quick exit? B/c yuh know you have no bloody point. God bless!

    • AND Andrew, no white man can treat me anyhow. I’m not one of those STUPID BLACK BOY who blame slavery and white people for everything that go wrong in their lives. I have a mind of my own and i use if to my benefit, not yours.
      Also i dont bully anyone willfully. The same way you exercise your rights to be gay, the same way i exercise my rights to express my feelings about it. I cannot stop you and you should not try to hush me up, you will fail badly. This is me acting my age

    • Akilah Holder yuh could count?
      You call this thread “much discussion”?
      Ha !
      Yuh petticoat showing, pull up yuh slip.
      Get familiar with true numbers nuh … https://www.facebook.com/rachelpricett/?ref=aymt_homepage_panel

    • People are entitled to thoughts and feelings and to the expression of them. The problems only start when people are not self-disciplined to carry and process their own emotional weight and instead pass it on to others in the form of violence. Everyone is dealing with pain in their lives. Some are trying to refrain as much as possible from passing on their pain to others and are instead seeking healing, inner peace and learning to love self and others again. Some are giving in to the pain and letting ti drive them mad. Others are passing it on to others in the form of violence.

      We have an epidemic of violence in T&T.

    • Akilah Holder if “bloody” is the strongest adjective in your arsenal, recognize my restraint based in pity for your vapid consciousness.

    • Unfortunately little known people who judge and point out the failings in others often generate a lot of hate fuelled discussion. The Hell and damnation approach just drives people away from religion and religious communities.

      .

    • I think people are moving away from religion and want the real thing. True love and kindness. Safe, peaceful space so they can meditate and know self and dream and create. We need creative and innovative people more than ever to solve some really big problems on the horizon and do so for the betterment of all. People tired of suffering. They are ready to give something different a try.

    • Most atheists and agnostics I know actually display empathy and strive for a better world for their children. Most Christians I know on the other hand are divisive and judgemental and want the world to crumble. They call it the second coming or the rapture. LOL. Why would any child, given complete freedom to choose his faith, want to be a Christian? They don’t.

    • I understand where you are coming from. I know there are a lot of compassionate, understanding people of all faiths out there but those who blame and shame are louder sometimes, especially when it comes to pointing out what they see as ‘faults’ in others or prioritising ‘the perceived faults’ over their own. I don’t think anyone likes being on the receiving end of that. It is reflected in church attendances all over the world going down. Crime going up as people feeling increasingly on the outer of society.

    • Andrew Gioannetti Are you following Jessica Joseph’s thread.? Very interesting. Cheers Jo

  62. just one thing people need to stop acting as if God was tolerant because he wasnt acc to the same foundation that they claim they recieve God from

  63. what two people do in a bedroom with their bodies is not my business

    what someone what to publish or write is their right

    and if God want to destroy sinners people are free to believe and support and quote that God

  64. freedom of speech
    right to privacy
    and freedom of religion are all principles i observe

  65. I better go say some Hail Mary’s before I go to bed yes…I had ah urge to eat some bacon for supper

  66. I pray to God that Ms Holder does not have a child or children who are gay. Lol@the all seeing ! I have similar questions


  67. Akilah Holder is a former college lecturer and journalist whose strong convictions often win her enemies, which does not faze her. She lives by the mantra ‘ignore the ignorant,’ has already published one book and has her own blog at https://intelligenttalk at wordpress dot com/ “:

    Troll.

  68. If wired is prepared to publish this bigoted trash, then will it publish outright racist articles that are justified on religious grounds? Or gender-based crimes, if ‘justified’ by religion or cultural practice?

    • Sadly Emir, we published a bitter racist letter two or three weeks ago.
      A trini of Indo ethnicity said he hated the PNM for what he believed they did to people of his race. His pain was real but obviously twisted.
      It wasn’t a call to action against blacks. I felt it gave an opportunity to address his deep deep bitterness and thankfully there were really good responses.
      Honestly, I don’t know if it is worth it. This is not what I want Wired868 to be about. So I can’t tell you I’m sure it was the right decision.
      But I also feel that pretending these things aren’t there doesn’t help either. Sometimes when you bring things out in the open you can disinfect it.

    • Had it been actively threatening a segment of the population, I’d draw the line.

  69. I could care less about the writer…It is the publisher I dealing with. What. The. Actual. Phoque?

  70. Honestly, the fact that the child chooses a literal interpretation shows that even in the thing that she believes that she cherry picks and chooses her quotes. THe appropriate response to her should be ten hearty “fuck yous”, since reasonable responses usually will not woirk.

    • The Internet is a publishing platform, which means that somewhere a view like hers will find acceptance. Not sure that W868 should be that place, unless you are giving “the other side” equal press. (which would now introduce false equivalency issues, but that is another topic for another day) The fact that her writing does not turn up in the dailies probably means that the letters to the editor not passing their smell test.

    • I not even bothering to read, St.Peter has to borrow the keys from them so to open the gates of heaven, and i have dealt with too many self righteous christians over the past few days, that are not going to sour me and change my relationship with GOD because of their foolishness.

      As a believer in christ, I do not agree with homosexuality, (my reasons are mine), i don’t believe in injustice and bigotry either.

      People often get matters of religion confused with matters of relationship with GOD. that is all i will say for now.

    • Rich Ian we absolutely would give the other side a voice. Would you like to try a letter?

  71. Religious folk apparently are the only one given a pass to bully and slander.

  72. Anything by this writer on the captioned subject is going to be bigoted.

  73. Lasana Liburd, this article is promoting bigotry and prejudice against dispossessed persons. What are you promoting?

    • I’m not promoting anything Rhoda. I think I need a disclaimer at end of our columns. Not for Akilah alone. There are several columns I don’t agree with in part of in their entirety.
      I explained elsewhere that I had to think long and hard. It isn’t clickbait as Keita suggested. It is the opposite as it threatens our reputation and might encourage some not to take us seriously.
      But that alternative view does exist. Akilah didn’t make it up. And all I can say is I am very encouraged that readers were as mature and eloquent as they were. That’s the plus.

    • Lasana Liburd the issue here isn’t whether you agree. It is whether your media house is publishing literature that promotes bigotry and prejudice. And this article does that…on very faulty premises….

    • I also think the other view, as you call it, could have been presented in a light that was more educational. Informing the listener of the other view. You are known for your satire and this could have been done similar to that. For example, CNN does stories on Trump supporters all the time and it is about showing the other side, but it is done in a way that does not imply you agree with the author. Or Saturday Night Live for example.

    • Rhoda, I can’t say with any certainty that I’m right about this. But I do believe that certain cancers flourish in dark but wither away in the light.
      I am not convinced that not talking about makes things better. In fact, I think that is the one thing that is guaranteed not to make things better.

    • Keita when it comes to a letters page i can only work with what I am given. If you offered me a piece on the topic, I’d use it.
      But I can’t twist someone’s work to say what I want it to say.
      Honestly, as I said, I can’t tell you that I am doing the right thing. Maybe not. Like I said, it is a risk. I think we have the best local football news coverage in the country so there is potential downside and no upside to us carrying stuff like this.
      But that is why we did it.

    • Lasana Liburd you would convince me if the views published are in the minority. In fact the view published is the norm. And it is bigotry. Why on earth are we giving voice to established, normalized bigotry?

    • Rhoda I think if the view was in the minority then I would be irresponsible to publish. But if it is from a significant segment of our population, then we need to hear, understand and address if we are to move forward as a people.

    • I need to understand and listen to bigotry to move forward as a people?
      Lemme go back to wining and flinging it up, oui.

    • Lasana Liburd I do not agree with this at all. I can’t break down why right now, but you need to take a stance on what you support and what you do not. We need to understand how people change their minds and it largely has to do with cherry picking ideas.

    • People who agree are going say yes, people who disagree are going to say no. This is not helping and only further polarizes groups.

    • Keita I did say what I believe in. And like I said I think people have expressed themselves eloquently.
      Rhoda, I’m not asking you to become a bigot. But isn’t the world better when we can show the flaws in a weak bigoted argument?
      It can be tedious and vexatious. I get that. And I’d never swamp us with toxic stuff. I promise.
      But I believe in confronting things head on. I always have.

    • Rhoda I feel you need to write a letter on the role of media and I will write on how people actually change their minds.

    • Lasana Liburd stand your ground, Sir!??????

    • Me? I is ah armchair warrior. You know this.
      Media doh take me on.
      Everybody and Their Hulsie does get a platform to spout their mythologies unchallenged.
      #wineandflingitup

    • Keita we published CAISO stuff before. And a letter from Colin Robinson.
      And it’s not about what can garner hits. Website would be very different if that was seriously what I wanted.
      I would never criticize the PNM, I wouldn’t write on extrajudicial killings, etc.

    • Lasana Liburd…enslavement has a Biblical argument, as does gender discrimination…are we going to promote those PoVs too for the sake of balance?
      Ah love yuh like cook food but yuh pissing on my ass with this one.

    • Barbara Jenkins….peep the discussion.

    • Honestly, there’s so much unprovable stuff in that “article” that I’m pretty sure it was not just made up, but made up while on drugs or something. There’s no logic, no consistency, no science, no fact

    • Rhoda we will absolutely publish a different view point. Fingers crossed Nigel Myers will hook us up. ?

    • Lasana Liburd lol quick fast??‍♂️??‍♂️??‍♂️??‍♂️??‍♂️

    • Really, Lasana, you call up my name to justify your bad judgment?

  74. Not sure this is properly called a “religious” argument at all- you’re assuming this view has some currency in the Church – but it’s not what I’ve read coming from the Pope. It’s risky business that- because of its not doctrine, it could properly be labeled bigotry, which probably shouldn’t be given a voice.

    • Justin i was viewing a programme of religious scholars Harvard and Yale no less, and I had to be picked up off of the floor when they agreed that the Catholic Church has not practiced Christianity in ages. The Pope is a Catholic point of reference but certainly not a Christian one.

  75. Dunno what to say nah. I’m personally not bothered by homosexuality. What two (or more) consensual adults get up to in their private space is their business, as far as I am concerned.
    I don’t want to see it. But I don’t lose any sleep over it.
    So I don’t see things in the same vein as the author. But I do know that religious people are a significant segment of our population.
    So at least we have their view. And some people have offered very eloquent thought provoking responses for which I am grateful.
    I can’t fault someone for being religious and consistently applying those beliefs, so long as they don’t wish harm on anyone else.
    Thing is can denying human rights to some be considered harmful?
    Like I said, some have been far more nuanced and eloquent than me in tackling those points.

  76. Anyway folks, it was nice interacting with you all. I must take my leave. Please do have a great night.

  77. very disappointed that u have gone down to publish this assness…apparently is a slow news day…or the homegirl is your woman who u wanted to please on valentines day by publishing her crap…

    • Good entertainment! ????

      “Akilah Holder”… look how I going and remember that idiots name. Lol!

    • Dwayne I tried to explain why we published in a few comments. No, I am not sure that we got it right. And we will take it on a case by case basis.
      But the general view is that to advance as a society, we have to understand our diverse opinions. Not necessarily accept but understand. That’s the first step in the long road to consensus.

    • Noting is wrong with person giving their opinion but when they start to preach and impose their religious beliefs on others that when the line has been crossed

    • Dwayne we have gone through so much as a people to get here and I just don’t think we will melt in the sun because someone quoted Leviticus. There have been some very interesting rebuttals and I’ve had an offer or three to do a letter in response. I hope at least one of those people follow through.

  78. Sometimes I wonder why people can’t express their views. It seems that straight persons in society are always being punished and silenced for their beliefs. Do we have to agree wholeheartedly with the views of the gay and lesbian community? Smh

    • I’m straight and I don’t agree, so try not to generalise.

    • Oh Averil St Clair- Celestain did I tag your name. I don’t think so.

    • What the discussion should be is Equal Rights (not under the Church but under the Law) Do they have a right to be the people that they choose to be, Do they have a right to live the life that they choose for themselves, and if one should die Do they have the legal right to inherit and make decisions for that person. Do I have the right to disagree with their lifestyle. But in disagreeing do I have the right to deny them a Job a home or anything that is legally available to a Citizen of this Country. If it is Religious reasons then under that do I have the right to deny them my service in a Private or Public Job, And last Do they have the right to walk these streets and not be abused beaten or killed. While I may not agree with the Gay Lifestyle and Have issues with Transgender persons because that is my me and my beliefs and my rights and as much as I am against it, I don’t have the right legally to deny any citizen of this country their rights, and Religiously because for The Bible State “Do not Judge, Unless Ye be Judge” I do believe it continuously states who has the last say, Of which I don’t have to answer for these people I have to answer for myself. And we sit in Judgement of these people while this country continues in some of the most corrupt practices. My mother taught me A sin is a sin is a sin, and take the beam out of your eye before you study the one in your brothers.

    • Yes I do agree with you We have the right to not agree with people of the Gay Community and it does get on my nerves when I am beaten down for expressing my views, and that is where the problem lies. While I may agree with them having certain Rights they have to accept that I do not nor will ever agree that your lifestyle is correct, this is not a Santa Claus and Easter Bunny issue this is telling me to deny my Beliefs.

    • I’d take you all more seriously if you used something other than just the Bible as your basis. What if the person isn’t Christian?

    • Antoinette Lewis I am totally with you. Emile they cannot be Christian, your business what you take seriously or not.

  79. Live your life how you want and go to hell or heaven,it’s your choice, I choose the ladies,I am going to heaven.

  80. Um, Wired 868 slow news day huh? Apparently homegirl was bored & needed to express her latent frustrations in the form of this homophobic rant. God sent Jesus for the sinners, not the sanctimonious. What grown folks do in their beds are their concern only. Must know the miserable people eh! Smh.

    • Just a letter to the editor. It is not the views of the website.

    • Good thing I didn’t say it was.

    • Right. A “responsible” media house publishes hate speech… And it’s “just a letter”…

      ????

    • “Media house”… anyway…

    • Kwasi if it was a call to arms or violence against any people, we wouldn’t publish.
      If a section of our society is airing their concern then I think the one way for us to be sure we don’t improve is by refusing to publish.
      Because there are enough people who share this view and they will continue to feed off each other.
      So I’d prefer to listen and, if possible, rebut with an intellectually superior argument.
      The easy thing is to ignore and ban everything that makes us uncomfortable. It would be easier for me too as I wouldn’t have to be defending publishing a view that I don’t agree with.

    • Urhm… I did say hate speech, right?

      Dear “media house” defending hate speech… try not to talk to me. Vybz? You’re laughable at best. And I already had my morning’s fill.

      You see the next coonimooni talking about shutting down Dimanche gras!? ?????

      And the same people I told… the same old ass add people who running out of ideas and WOULDN’T let we een… BLAMING GOV’T! LOL!!

      If you want to publish the letters of idle little girls who pim bunning them when the night come… who jaded over some man who find heself… who living in a bible… who hopeless, frustrated and stupid and want to spread hate to deal with it… like a child… That is your ass business.

      Trinidad has no journalism. We all know it. Nobody cares.

      Thanks. Bai.

    • Kwasi it must be nice to have all the answers. We can only try and learn as we go along.
      Who knows. Maybe your way is best and we have only to insult people we don’t agree with to make it a better world.
      For now, we are trying something different.

    • 1. Not different. It’s called “regressive”…

      2. You keep tagging me. I absolutely don’t like it. Please stop.

      3. Where was the insult? You felt insulted? Poor you. Does this letter of “Love” warrant any thought on my part? Naw. It doesn’t.

      I know you my brethren. Trinidadians, especially, have a funny way of showing “love…”…

      Tell that lady to use that fervor to get her shit together. Nobody has time for it. THREE FUNERAL NOTICES came up in my feed this morning… then this shit.

      I mean… I too grown to be bothered by you, my brethren. I have my life to live.

      Now I said bai… and you tagged me… So let’s try “hello”

      Thanks.

  81. Whenever anyone goes, “Well GOD says…” and then they pull out a BOOK, written by men, edited by men, translated and re-translated and put together by men and full of OBVIOUS human tampering, you cannot take them seriously at all.

    Just to illustrate my point, there is actually no ancient Hebrew or Greek corollary to the word “homosexuality” or “homosexual” or its meaning. If your translation of the bible has the term “homosexuality” in it, you can bet it was edited after 1945. In fact, you would be shocked at how much human tampering is involved in the bible. “Homosexuality” is a medical term coined in the late 1800s when human sexuality began to be scientifically studied for the first time. The 19th Century medical term for someone innately attracted to their own gender rather than the opposite gender, is a concept foreign to the bible. The bible deals with people’s actions or roles not their psychological orientation.

    Most people are so ignorant about how the bible came to be, they actually think Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were written by their namesakes. It is a MAN-MADE book, reflecting the opinions of MEN, primitive, desert tribal, ignorant, iron aged men living in Northern Palestine. Men who did not know where the sun went at night and thought birds’ blood cured leprosy. While they might have occasionally hit on a few universal truths,a they missed the mark ethically on many issues and were ignorant about even more.

    Most people are so ignorant about how the bible came to be, they actually think Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were written by their namesakes. It is a MAN-MADE book, reflecting the opinions of MEN, primitive, desert tribal, ignorant, iron aged men living in Northern Palestine. Men who did not know where the sun went at night and thought birds’ blood cured leprosy. While they might have occasionally hit on a few universal truths, as many ancient writings sometimes do, they missed the mark ethically on many issues and were ignorant about even more.

    The bible has been edited, added to, mistranslated and in the case of the bible-thumpers who like to take it completely out of context, misappropriated to support whatever is their latest bigoted stance.

    • True,indeed, after all god created light(photons)n on the first day BUt the source of photons –the Sun — was created on the fourth day..

    • Indeed! I wonder if anyone here were diagnosed with Hansen’s disease (leprosy) which we know from science is caused by Mycobacterium leprae and Mycobacterium lepromatosis, would they go to see a dermatologist and get antibiotic treatments or would you apply the bible’s advice:

      Get two birds. Kill one. Dip the live bird in the blood of the dead one. Sprinkle the blood on the leper seven times, and then let the blood-soaked bird fly away. Next find a lamb and kill it. Wipe some of its blood on the patient’s right ear, thumb, and big toe. Sprinkle seven times with oil and wipe some of the oil on his right ear, thumb and big toe. Repeat. Finally find another pair of birds. Kill one and dip the live bird in the dead bird’s blood. Wipe some blood on the patient’s right ear, thumb, and big toe. Sprinkle the house with blood 7 times.– Leviticus 14:2-52

      Let us never forget that the bible and many ancient books were written by bronze and iron-age men unaware of how much of the world worked. They did not know what caused earthquakes, storms or even that women contributed 50% of the genetic material towards babies. Sometimes they got it right but many times, they fell woefully short of what is actually true.

    • And Jessica Joseph wins the thread folks!!!!

    • Jessica Joseph you keep believing that

    • Onika Nkrumah-Lakhan It’s not about what I believe but about what is actual fact. Most people are woefully biblically illiterate and have no idea how the bible as they know it go to be what it is. Some of us have done the research and know better. Nobody has been able to provide any valid evidence that the bible is anything but the work of man.

      I have read the bible, and studied extensively and I am very versed in Christian theology and comparative religion so, I tend to stick with what the most learned people have to say on the issue.

  82. If you belong to a religious sect that condemns LGBT people, that is your business. Practice your religion and apply it to yourself. It has no bearing on anyone else. The most condemned sin in the bible is worshiping any other deity but Yahweh, it actually made the TOP TWO of the ten commandments, homosexuality did not.

    So what does this mean for all non-Yahweh worshipers in our plural society? Do we strip all Hindus, Buddhists, Orisha and agnostic and atheist people of their rights? Do we ban their ability to worship because it is against the religion of some?

  83. Such an ignorant article. Happy Valentine’s day.

  84. It is all in Scripture. God loves His people regardless of their orientation what He does not condone according th Scripture is the acting out of those desires.

  85. Q and I too? Hmmm, can’t and won’t keep up

  86. Lasana, do you try to spite by publishing these articles? Wha we do yuh sooooooo?!. Please note I have read not one single word…i glance at the author and I have zero interest….

  87. I was very confused by these references to God. As far as I know Zeus has made no pronouncements on the subject.

  88. I feel sorry for Christians. Their religion is toxic. Imagine giving a free pass to slave owners but persecuting a gay person who has no business with you. I will say unapologetically, Christianity is a big load of dotishness. And it will be dead within decades.

  89. borrowed from a wise person:

    Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God’s Law. I have learned a great deal from this article show, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.

    I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to best follow them.

    a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

    b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

    c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

    d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to grenadians, but not Guyanese. Can you clarify? Why can’t I own Guyanese?

    e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

    f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an Abomination (Lev 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don’t agree. Can you settle this?

    g) Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

    h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27. How should they die?

    i) I know from Lev 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play rugby if I wear gloves?

    j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24:10-16) Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

    I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you for reminding us that God’s word is eternal and unchanging.

  90. Your God has power to End world hunger cure disease stop wars human trafficking but yet all he seemd to be interested in when human get naked. As Seneca said : Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful” And Jean Mesler : If God himself was not able to render human nature sinless, what right had he to punish men for not being sinless. But really why are you encouraging a believer in debunked fairy tales a voice her. Any educated person must know by now that the Bible is not proof of any god and that its really the satings of uneducated got herders.

    • Christopher Lewis, mankind has free will. He chose to disobey God, which resulted in all the suffering going on. If mankind turned back to God, the suffering would stop, but all around the world, we’re kicking God out. When you legalize something he condemns, and continuously disobey, how you expect him to get involved? Ask yourself, if someone didn’t want you to intervene in their lives, would you? If they kept rejecting you, unless your pushy, would you bother with them? I’m sure the answer is a resounding no. And God is not pushy, he’s a gentleman. So if you don’t want him in your life, he will not get involved. So who at fault? Man.

    • Christian apologetic created by St. Augustine to fill a real void in their failed and false idealogy

    • Christopher Lewis according to you??The world’s most credible source??

    • The existence of God is the null hypothesis par excellence. You posit it you prove it. The Bible is full of contradictions . Many so called Christians never read the bible from cover to cover just the good parts. Start by looking at this http://www.evilbible.com/ where the vicious truth of the bible is set out using the very words of the bible.

    • Akilah Holder “When you legalize something he condemns, and continuously disobey, how you expect him to get involved? Ask yourself, if someone didn’t want you to intervene in their lives, would you? If they kept rejecting you, unless your pushy, would you bother with them? I’m sure the answer is a resounding no.”

      Barring my own views on what you have written, can you tell me why you have placed such limits on the power of your God? I can never understand man’s rationale in explaining what God would or would not do. How do you know?

  91. As I said before, if we continue with this dotishness, one day man will be fighting for the rights to have sex with animals, and there will also be CLOWNS supporting them saying that “it’s their rights and we have to respect it” I prefer to be thrown in the hottest part of hell fire than to support this NASTINESS. thinking about man sexing with man is really disgusting and can never be right don’t matter how you try to explain to me. If the GOD that I believe in sanction that, I don’t want to be nowhere close to him. But Im safe because I know he did not. PEACE

    • Excuse me they are already lobbying for the right to sex animals plus Germany has an animal brothel, for the animal lovers,wink nudge! And NAMBLA is bringing up the rear(no pun intended), with their lobby for their pedophiliac right to abuse people’s children ok. ??????‍♀️??‍♀️?

    • Onika Nkrumah-Lakhan Yes, Onika, you’re correct. Was going to point that out.

    • I believe alyuh joking, that not sounding right

    • Onika Nkrumah-Lakhan Go Germany I think as a man or woman thinks so is sheep

    • Kenroy Ambris No joke here nuh boy. Google it. Things that bad.

    • I fell you like animals Hint Animals are for sacrifice not sex

    • If that comment make you feel important, such is life. I will not burst your bubble

    • But Kenroy, why you hadda think about it? There’s plenty more things going on in TT and the world that could occupy your thoughts :-). I doh walk around thinking about other people’s sex lives cause that ain’t my business!

    • Bonnie, I also don’t walk around thinking about it. It’s the last thing on my mind. All I do is comment on it whenever the topic is in front of me.

    • I believe you Kenroy Ambris. And we could could have opposing views and still be good, yes?

    • Trins Christian swallow all kind of propoganda . Only the so called christian ralk about sex with animals .I wonder why ..

    • Sex with an animal could never be consensual (unless you know how to speak horse or goat) – that is rape – so you can’t compare the legitimacy of that kind of behavior to that of two consenting adults of the same sex… that’s just a nonsense argument, no two ways about it.

    • Duane, wait and see, in years to come some nasty stinking jackass will come up with an argument just the same way they did to make pushing your dick into a shit hole legal

    • Kenroy Ambris, I feel you have to try to challenge yourself to think higher thoughts, not let yourself be consumed by this gutterishness. Try nah. Is only allyuh making this a purely physical thing while everybody else on a different level.

    • Bonnie, Thinking higher thoughts mean sweeping the hard truth under the table.
      Logic: why is it OK for the media to get to the bottom of everything by doing indept investigations and unearthing everything down to the last details but in this situation it is OK to cover up the nastiness behind guy people? Double standard

    • Onika Nkrumah-Lakhan get your facts straight…there is no such thing in germany …what u are quoting was false news that was circulated on social media a few months ago…

    • Kenroy – just because you think it’s nastiness doesn’t make it nastiness. And no one is covering up anything. People just have different perspectives. I for one think the age-old animal analogy is nonsensical. Accepting Homosexuality between two consenting adults is not a gateway to accept rape of an animal. I can’t reason with that logic.

    • Duane, I believe that I’m older than you and I’m old and experienced enough to know what nastiness is. I also believe that you know what nastiness is but you convince yourself that it is OK so nothing I say can change your mind and I will not try.
      After all is said and done, no amount of disinfectant can clean that nastiness.

    • For me, what is nasty, what is o.k. etc… in this context is all subjective. It has nothing to do with experience either. What I’m reading from you and other like-minded posters is pure regurgitation…i.e. you have been taught something, you accepted it, and now you are passing it along it as it was passed along to you. There is nothing original in what you’re saying and there’s nothing that you are saying that hasn’t been said for generations and simply passed on from one generation to the next. All I’m saying is not everyone is taught the same thing, and not everyone accepts what they have been taught – so people will have different perspectives…and you can’t invalidate someone else’s point of view merely on the strength of your conviction. Life doesn’t work that way. I’m sure your experience must have taught you that too 🙂

    • No one believes in change more than i do. Most of the stuff that i was taught growing up i dont believe and i made changes as i see fit. Most of all i have my life to live and so do you and if you see it fit to make love to a man who has a dick bigger or smaller than yours, thats your prerogative, i will still sleep comfortable at nights hugging my beautiful WIFE, who has breast and vagina and produced 2 beautiful children from my sperm.

    • And because there’re “two consensual adults” involved, means it’s “normal”. It’s unbelievable that humans think it’s normal. If animals believe so, I can understand them. Never the human being. No Bible is needed to explain that this was NEVER meant to be. Only a matter of time before the production of the human being will decrease significantly. Maybe they think the world is too populated.

    • That’s one of the main reasons today why it’s so rampant, especially with women. It’s a vice. No longer to do with “genes”. They’re living a fantasy, which the movie industry helped to promote.

    • Nope, the reason it seems more prevalent these days than in the past is because the language for feeling attraction to the same sex/gender is much more widely known and the environment is much less hostile towards it than even a few years ago. Consequently, more people recognise their attraction and then act on it.

    • Katherine, are you trying to justify stinkness? Something that’s full of diseases? Are you right in your mind? What year did you hit your head very hard and loose most of your senses?

    • Nope, because being gay is not “stink” and is no more risky for disease than heterosexuality.

    • Are you serious Katherine, you believe that pushing a dick into a shit hole is not stink? This really tells me a lot about you. It’s a shame the nastiness that people think is normal.
      Very soon you will tell me that it’s OK to suck into a man’s shit hole. You all are a bunch of sick people

    • That particular sexual habit is not practised by every gay person but also is practised by many straight people. You may not like it or have any interest in it which is fine. You should only have the sex you want to have. But what other people do with their bodies in a consensual and appropriate manner is really not something that needs to trouble you. Particularly when the behaviour in question is not unhealthy or harmful or outside the bounds of normal human risk taking.

    • Ma’am, IT IS UNHEALTHY!!!! What part of messing up in SHIT is healthy?
      Also you are taking risk. SHIT is full of diseases. YOU ARE NOT MAKING ANY SENSE TO ME

    • The rectal cavity is generally cleaned before any sex acts are performed. It’s called an enema. Many participants also use gloves and condoms and dental dams for sterility.

    • You are very sick in your mind for trying to justify this stinkness. I don’t want to hear anymore.

    • Katherine McEwan that definitely sounds like fun???‍♀️

    • It’s not for everyone. Some people like it, others don’t. In any case, it’s not a marker of value as a person or morality as a person.

    • Women out there (especially) in the foreign countries, pursue other women sexually. They will tell other women (that they don’t even know) that they want to “eat” them. Can you imagine a man telling a woman that? They’d blow their covers, over being “harassed” by a “nasty man”. But as I said, homosexuality is a VICE more than anything else, especially for women, because of how “beautiful” it is. So with the promotion of it in the movies, sitcom, porn, some will fantasize about the idea and may eventually live it, then become bi-sexuals or full blown lesbians.
      Homosexuality is a CHOICE, but these “pressure groups” are out there are attempting to impose their lifestyle on the masses as if it’s a “normal” behaviour, which makes them somewhat an “endangered species”.
      They should all live on an island by themselves, happily and merrily, without having to think about who’re “against them” and deh “rights”. There’ll be no more reproduction taking place and they will eventually evaporate.

  92. cant imagine there’s a single sentence of value/substance in this article.

  93. Didn’t realize Wired868 was into the rights and wrongs of how people live their lives now.

    • Shari, please know you can live your life how you like. That is the opinion of one contributor and not the view of Wired868.
      Just like every newspaper on the planet has a variety of views on its letter page.

  94. Which God?? Steups. “All men are equal in the eyes of God. Would that all Gods were equal in the eyes of man.” Peter Minshall.

  95. “But do not use the name of God to legitimize your cause, do not twist His words and do not dishonour His name.”

    Wars, slavery…

    Everybody always seemed to know what God say, what he didn’t say, talking on his behalf, what he want, didn’t want etc. Meanwhile people does cherry pick want dey want to believe in.

    “Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God.”

    Well ah guess most people gone through then. Isn’t fornication a sexual sin? Ah wonder why she singled out male prostitutes, de female ones getting a free pass?

    Anyway, I realize long time dat when it come to talking about religion or religious viewpoints, logic and reasoning does go out de window. It does end up being about power and ego.

  96. That train has already left the station, and it is a matter of when rather than if it arrives. Our gay brothers and sisters are not second class citizens, and in time, will (deservedly) get every right that straight people like me enjoy. This is not a popular opinion in our Caribbean civilisation — as Ralph Gonsalves likes to refer to us. And yes, my own views are formed from 2 decades in the UK. But hey, gay rights are human rights. It will be a long, long time before gay PDA, for example, can be openly demonstrated without causing some unease in our societies. And in truth, I can’t quite get used to seeing gay couples canoodling in some countries besides our own. We will never be Greek Street in London, and we shouldn’t try to be. And on scriptural strictures, I’m not best equipped to argue. But on the broader outlines of the LGBTQI issues, that train has left the station already.

    • Orin Gordon, you should know by now that this is not a thread that’s worth any kind of balanced response, but good of you to provide it :-). Yuh read all that scripture? Is lorse everybody done lorse arredi, regardless of belief.

    • Bonnie, I live in hope that we can disagree agreeably on these things. I try to be reasonable and rational, and hopefully it’ll be reciprocated. 🙂

    • I will hope along with you. Just remember the writer believes that God’s wrath was delivered upon the states that legalised same sex marriage. Whilst I do like to understand all viewpoints, I’ve learned that trying to reason with narrow minds + public platforms + unverifiable sources go nowhere. But I’ll cheer you on from the sidelines whilst enjoying having wonderful friends of all persuasion.

    • “Is lorse everybody done lorse arredi…” lololol take win Bonnie.

  97. Well if the Bible say it, it must be true! Bun dem!! Bun dem!!! Bun dem!!! Bird, yuh giving me grey hairs with these posts man. Stress.

    • Hey. The theological side is outta my league. But Nigel Myers gave it a good go below. 🙂

    • Lasana Liburd why would you post this letter to the editor?

    • Jessica Joseph is schooling them.

    • Keita we definitely don’t agree with every opinion we publish but post when we think the person has a right to express their view or because we feel it can start a worthwhile debate.
      Now there have been some topics that really made me think long and hard because it is difficult to see a positive thread coming from something when the authors believes they have all the answers, are very bitter and divisive or is closed off from debate in other ways. (I’m talking in general here and not necessarily about this piece).
      In this case, I decided that religious persons are part of our society and I wouldn’t want to deny them a chance to address the public so to speak. I also believe there is a big danger in creating an echo chamber where you self-censor to fit the perceived ideology of your readers.
      So I was nervous about this but felt I had to do it to be ideologically consistent.
      And, not for the first time, I breathed a sigh of relief when I saw that readers were indeed able to address topic in responsible, mature way.
      For sure, this could have gone very wrong…

    • Lasana Liburd I feel this needs an in person conversation, the article does not even present a good debate on the religious side of the debate. There was once a large section of the population who wanted to maintain slavery. You argument is a logical fallacy called an appeal to authority and it leads us to content that is geared at the least common denominator. If your point was that by igniting a conversation we educate readers through the comments, then fine, I get that, but I am not convinced by your argument, but hey you publish what you wish. I do find that often the best things are in the comments.

    • Keita I agree with you about the comments for sure. That’s where arguments get tested and sometimes pulled apart.
      Where is the lowest common denominator though? Check the thread and see for yourself.
      Wired868 doesn’t attract the lowest common denominator. This website started in January 2012. The lowest common denominator would have found us by now.

    • Keita if we were in slavery times, I would publish the views of the slave master. Because I’d know that we would then dismantle those views.
      Isn’t that the better way to win the war?

    • I feel I need to write you a letter.

    • Keita we would publish even if you criticize our stance. And we would take those views into account too going forward.
      Like I said, I am not saying I have all the answers. I’m just trying to be consistent myself. And trying not to blow myself up in the process!

    • Keita, like every good editor and proprietor, Lasana recognises the value of clicks and engagement. You mighten’t agree with what Akilah has to say (and I don’t), but her point of view is widely held (yeah, I know that’s the door to all multitude of justifications, but still…)

    • What religious side of what debate..there is no religious debate to this.

  98. Come with it Sis, talk de tings dem. #politicallyincorrect #facts