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On Friday December 18, the Aria Lounge on Ariapita Avenue should have more cross-dressers than, well, Curepe, after ‘Womantra’ asked women to wear their most unfemale clothes to disguise their femininity while men were advised to wear dresses.
Before you get too excited, Mr Live Wire would like to point out that Womantra is a feminist group and not a j’ouvert band.
Womantra chose a fitting rallying cry for its proposed demonstration: “Come out all butched up!”
When historians look back on issues that shaped Trinidad and Tobago culturally, with all due respect, this probably would not be one of them. But let me explain further.
On December 11, Shannon Gomes turned up at the Aria with her lady friend to “turn up”, only to be told at the door that she would have to pay $120 for the pleasure. Or, to put it another way, she was charged the “men’s price.”
Gomes is, biologically and legally, not a man. But her pleas for a freebie fell on deaf ears. And she was asked to pay to enter Aria, just like the hundreds of men who also went to the club that night.
Sexual discrimination? Damn straight!
Why do the men have to pay when the women don’t?!
You see, in 2015, there are still many proprietors who believe that women are sexual bait or eye candy for big spending male patrons. And it is a stereotype that cuts both ways: women are cheap or need hand-outs and men are lust-driven idiots with big wallets.
No matter what Womantra says, the discrimination did not start last Friday. It started decades ago. And, unawares, young men and women stepped in the footprints in front of them, carrying on the cycle of discrimination until Ms Gomes—the John Howard Griffin of her time—inadvertently crossed the barrier.
In 1959, Griffin used medical assistance to darken his skin so as to appear black and get a real idea of life as an African-American in Louisiana. His subsequent memoir, Black Like Me, was a best seller and described in detail the problems and discrimination that “coloured folk” faced during their daily lives in the Deep South.
Gomes had no such calling.
“F%*k this man’s price crap,” she might have well said, “I just wanna get in free!”
Oh well.
Womantra has vowed to fight for Ms Gomes’ right to not be treated in the same discriminatory manner as male patrons. A feminist group insisting that a woman not be treated as equal to men? Irony? What irony?
So women in men’s outfits should benefit from slashed cover charges but men in men’s outfits have to fend for themselves. Unless they wear dresses. Eh?
(Copyright Shuttershock)
Sorry ladies. But if women can get in free while dressed as men, then tell us again why men shouldn’t get in free while dressed as men? How can an ethical and progressive group choose between who it liberates from the same fire?
At least Aria can claim economic motivation for its discrimination.
No self-respecting protest would be caught dead without a hashtag and Womantra has already begun promoting: #insolidaritywithshannon.
So, Mr Live Wire has opted for: #soisonlyshannonallyuhseepaying.
There is precedent to our argument. The court of Montgomery in Maryland ruled:
“Any distinction with respect to any person based on race, colour, sex, marital status, religious creed, ancestry, national origin, handicap, or sexual orientation in connection with admission to, service or sales in, or price, quality or use of any facility or service of any place of public accommodation, resort or amusement in the county.”
The California Supreme Court declared:
“The Legislature has clearly stated that business establishments must provide “equal… advantages… (and) privileges to all customers no matter what their sex…
“A business establishment might offer reduced rates to all customers on one day each week. Or, a business might offer a discount to any customer who meets a condition which any patron could satisfy (eg presenting a coupon, or sporting a certain colour shirt or a particular bumper sticker)…
“The key is that the discounts must be applicable alike to persons of every sex, colour, race…”
In other words, clubs would behave like cinemas.
So, tell Aria that Mr Live Wire coming with his dogs and dem. And we ent wearing no dress. And if the ladies ent paying to go inside, then we ent paying neither!
Well, unless the ladies inside are really cute of course.
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Mr. Live Wire is an avid news reader who translates media reports for persons who can handle the truth. And satire. Unlike Jack Nicholson, he rarely yells.
Check the ratio of man to woman on an ad for a party. Women are used to get man money so that then is the negotiating power
Vernal Damion Cadogan hold on to that point like a toy dog with a chew toy. For dear life
..LOL..I not on da point man. She butch and they were wrong. I on the broader point Lasana raised in his own way..
..LOL..No way! But the man/woman thing was different and more clearcut when I was out and about. My points stands – pun intended..
Playing MAN but want to be treated as WOMAN.LMAO.
See the ladies get in free because they are the attraction to get the men to come in and pay. You know it is all about merchandising -no buying or selling. It is just to be where the pretty people are. Come on ah doh believe allyuh used to go to Postman party and stay back in de day.
Which is why they are not only stereotyping Ms Gomes but men and women too.
However you swing it, the discount is based on sexual discrimination.
To a certain extent but it goes beyond that as well. Is people telling you that you don’t really fit in here but for a price we can organise something.
Hahaha. Touché
Why should women be allowed to enter free before 10pm.That is DISCRIMINATION against MEN.What about EQUALITY or that is just being selective where GENDER is concerned.LOL
..Nope. Not vex. LOL..It’s the truth, innit? And men are often victimized by it. Girls learn early how to play the game while boys remain confused about it – until they start playing by their own rules. Look at the world today..
Look Loy blasted vex
Wey Look Loy say dey?
..I don’t give a f@#& who wants to f@#& who. Not my business. But the only people who get to f@#& with the concept of equality and to determine when they want to be or not be equal are women – butch and/or straight..
Lol. Equal rights but we get to investigate strange noises or throw out the garbage eh? Equality is an evolution I hope.
..Sigh..
Correct me ifim wrong
I sit come up with a context for business, package it and market it.
Publish the restrictions and then you claim discrimination if you don’t comply. ?
I think men should protest.
We could say we’re being discrimminated against.
Why should we have to pay $120 just to go inside and spend more?
Women just have to look cute and waltz in…..for free.
I find if I supportin the bar…i should get in free too…..After all….aren’t my hard earned funds are being spent at that establishment to enrich the operators??
Should I posit the the $120 cover is discrimminatory practice..?? ….just cause I is a man ??
Like me covering my bald head under ah cap for instance! Back mih up Rowley! Let’s shut down the “no hat” policy once and for all! 🙂
lawd….doh talk about dress code discrimination in clubs…..all dem NO and d big long list…..only applies to men
I finally found out what Ms Gomes protesting for…and Im even more pissed. She doesnt want her body to be policed. So when we tell fellas no three quarter pants, caps or vest isnt that also body policing?
You too Lasana Liburd have those same thoughts. ….haha i thought it was only me
Well I’m confused as to what she means by that term exactly. Is that like me wanting to go to work in my boxers?
besides….is $120 yuh bennin for???
really??
If you choose to dress and act like a man…AND yuh have a girlfriend….why yuh getting vex?
You’re being addressed and treated accordingly.
YOU want people to associate you with the more masculine aspects of your nature
You cyah decide to be a girly-girl because paying a cover charge doan suit you
Ent YOU want people to accept your lifestyle choice?
Then deal with the attendant “perks” of being accepted as a male-equivalent.
Sumdath Redoy …..convenient
Butch women are not men. Butch women are not men. Butch women are not men. Butch women are not men “lite”. Butch women are not comparable to men.
“You’re being addressed and treated accordingly.” This alludes to different treatment based on gender no? Are you advocating inequality then? Please note that the treatment of the lady is one issue: people taking it upon themselves to tell others who they SHOULD be. This is a separate issue from women free at clubs which is: They are bait for men who are perceived as the chief money spenders. Don’t conflate the two and be aware that the existence of both issues does not negate the other.
Che Sookal ….if anything the result shows equitable treatment
If you want to present yourself as male…then deal with the experience of being male
even if the ppl responsible for admission were being facetious
she’s dealing with the result of a conscious decision SHE made
We decide who we are. We don’t decide how others treat us as a result. But we can talk about it. You can’t just say “deal with it” because that’s what you experience being a member of that group. That perpetuates discrimination. Who are you to say what gender she is?
She wasn’t being treated as male in any case. The door person was very clearly aware of the gender of the person she addressed as it was clearly mentioned. The door person was treating her as a gender non-conforming woman.
Katherine McEwan …the bottom line is….this is a NON-ISSUE
Nobody’s making noise about other clubs’ selectivity …. when propective patrons are barred because of some arbitrarily enforced rule…..usually because of appearance
Well then you should be thankful that we’ve achieved the critical mass thankful for this discussion to take place. People making noise is not the qualifying criteria for whether an issue is an issue. All it’s an indicator of is that the discussion has either not yet taken place or not yet broken into the mainstream.
Would you like to make noise about other clubs? I’d be happy to discuss those issues too. Perhaps not here at the risk of derailing the already in progress discussion.
And in actuality, it’s the fact that she wasn’t barred outright that is the problem.
Katherine McEwan ….sookhai doesn’t even grasp what “noise” is…
Discrimination because of what? We are so caught up making rights for the wrong things these days we are blind to see the damage that is being done.
Aria said ladies free and then didn’t let a lady in for free. We think that was wrong. But at the same time, the entire policy discriminates sexually which is arguably the bigger picture.
Lasana Liburd …why dress like a man?
why try appearing male?
why get upset when somebody treats you like a male patron?
Well that is a separate conversation to be honest. If Aria say “ladies free” and she is biologically a lady, then I don’t think they can win.
I think there are many things worth discussing in this matter though. For sure. But Aria can’t shake off that fact.
Well thegreatest thing happened his morning on Facebook. They deleted my original post and said it breaks some rules of fb.
I think you missed the whole point of the argument on WOMANTRA. It wasn’t that she was fighting down getting in free as a woman but the fact that the people told her that because she was dressed like a man, she has to pay like a man. She wasn’t refused entry based on how she was dressed but was refused access to a policy that only states females (doesn’t state how they must be dressed and Aria’s dress code doesn’t specify any specific wear for women). If they offer something to women alone, solely based on as you said, a very two-sided sexist policy where men pay and women don’t but its because they’re there as ‘products’ that men pay for access to then they can’t get angry when a woman who does not fulfill their idea of ‘man bait’ decides to take them up on their sexist policy and get in. The problem is that in the end, because she wasn’t deemed ‘f**kable’ so she had to pay like a man. Its them mistaking her identity as a lesbian for her being transgendered, which she isn’t. It stems from people seeing lesbians wearing stereotypically male clothing as them wanting to be men when they do not, that’s just their style regardless of what people think. Until you see her ticking the Male box on forms in her day-to-day life, you cannot ASSUME that she identifies as a man regardless of what you think about how she dressed. Its not lesbian-wear but women’s wear because in the end, she is a woman and its the clothes on her back, regardless of what people think.
Not looking for an argument but just offering some perspective
Well, just to reiterate, we made it clear that we do believe Aria discriminated against Ms Gomes. But we think we made it clear what our point is in terms of pricing policy that is explicitly about sexual discrimination.
Dude male clothing is not lesbian style. I don’t know where you got that idea from but as far as i know you should not be able to tell any person’s sexual orientation based on how they are dressed, there is no particular style.
But on the main issue, I think the point the article is trying to make is that Ms Gomes would not have been in this situation if she and everyone else had not already accepted and “participated” in the sexual discrimination based on pricing policy that is common at many clubs. Not only did she ….. and everyone else accept this discrimination but she went there hoping to benefit from it even before she suffered the “injustice”. So even though the clubs management may be wrong in how they handled the situation and the interpretations of its policies, most of the criticism towards them is misguided.
P.s. Not sure if this is relevant in their case but we know there is some difference between sex and gender; the ad for that night did not state “females”.
Did the article refer to Ms Gomes as a lesbian? If so, then please point out where. Womantra used the word “butch.” But I think I stayed very clear of the separate conversation of sexual orientation.
Which is a discussion worth having on the topic by the way. But I just chose not to add to the mix as it probably deserves a separate post.
Joao, you really have a different angle on this topic yes. :-/
Daiz nuh ah angle …… I doh know what dat is, buh is not no angle! LOL
???
Just some light humour to the topic … at the rate things goings there will be a war of words and ppl will blocking ppl….
We selective about the sinners and the sin as far as i am seeing in some of the comments on different pages. Some sinners passing muster and others getting sent down the chute.
That isn’t the issue at all here eh Stephon. We do believe Ms Gomes was discriminated against and Aria was wrong to do so.
Caitlyn jenna and ru paul are carded to make guest appearances at aria this weekend …..
We need to stop making black and white issues into grey areas
Well aria is now famous thanks to all the free publicity now the lines to get in will be snaking all down the avenue
A masterful marketing strategy. .
Lol.
Sad eh. Just shows how we have failed this generation who think they have to be seen in places like this to have any value.
Well, biologically she is a woman. So I totally understand Gomes’ protest. And she is right. In no way am I saying she is not right.
But she was afoul of the dress code regradless of her gender….. her attire was perceptive and subject to scruntiy by the door ppl
But they didn’t identify by dress code. And that is where Aria cannot defend itself legally.
I saw her profile and i too was duped thinking it was someone masculine. … they looked very young
She would have had ID.
She would need to bring her birth paper… id can lie too and I’ve seen errors made also….haha
:-/
Does the police ask for birth paper when they stop you on the side of the road?
It was joke
Ok. Missed that one. 🙂
Why should the club be chastised for a person’s identity crisis
So you’re ok with others just not this one in this particular case?!
I have never known one club that hasn’t had discrimination ‘policies’ whether they publicly advertised them or not.
Yep!! They all do.. You are turned away from clubs in NYC, Vegas and LA for not being pretty enough.
All over the world
Chris, it might not even be ‘pretty’, I’d say ‘cool’ or fashionable enough because we all know people who are not so good looking get into top clubs around the world
So you’e saying it was ok to for those clubs to have a “Golliwog Night” and a “Dhal Night” because we weren’t “enlightened” back then?
That was then, this is now, the age of enlightenment.
????? Melina Hutchinson I see you’ve never heard of Genesis, The Blue Iguana, The Base or Club Coconuts
We should shut down Aria for their discriminatory policy.
I bet if they had refused entry to someone who was black, everyone would be up in arms about it.
Gay people are humans too and they have feelings like us!
Missing the point mel….
No I am not.
Aria discriminated against the young woman because she is a lesbian.
It’s as simple as that!
No Melina Hutchinson its not that…… this is not about sexual orientation or gender…. she was afoul of the dress code and if she wanted to get in she would have to pay …she could have left and spare herself the embarrassment. … but no beacuse i dress a certain way the club have to bend the rules to suit me…… this is what she is implying. … imho i think she was being disingenuous. That is like telling me i can go to an interview in a short pants or show up in a banquet wearing jeans and tshirt
Joao Maelo yuh still missing it. Aria might have a dress code but ladies free did not depend on it. If she was not dressed appropriately they would not have let her in the club.
point taken
She did not fit the female dress code and if she was considered under the male dress code then she has to pay #payYuhMoneyShannon
Kimerlee Ami Soo Ting it was not advertised as “ladies in ladies dress code free before 10”
It’s obvious that you have to abide by the dress code of any establishment for entry. I wore sleeveless the other day and couldn’t enter the ministry of education or NP warehouse, it doesn’t need to be explicitly advertised. Usually the bottom of the invite or fb flyer says, “strict dress code applies” and “management reserves the right to refuse admission.”
This is the details of the event she attended
Well, this says it all.
Ladies free before 10pm.
She is a lady and her id card says so.
She was discriminated agaist based on her sexual orientation!
How does anyone know your sexual orientation from looking at you??? Lesbians come in various looks
I think by now, we can all recognize the “male counterpart” in a lesbian relationship and the “female counterpart” in a homosexual relationship.
I know lesbian couples with both being pretty feminine. Anyway this is a gender identity issue. Let’s not get it mixed up, gender and sex are two different things. Sex is based on your anatomy and gender is what you identify with. She did not fit the dress code for ladies and should have been refused entry. She was considered under the dress code for men since she wore flats and therefore was treated as a dude. No one should be able to cross back and forth between genders where convenient. Choose a side and stick with it.
She may look and dress like a male but the fact is that she is a female as her id card says.
Perhaps she should’ve removed her shirt and showed them her breasts.
That wouldn’t have helped her, she did not meet the female dress code! I have had friends refused entry into zen because they had on sandals. Do you all actually go to clubs? Because people seem to be unable to grasp the fact that she did not abide by the female dress code, so she should have been refused entirely.
That’s my point!
She should’ve been refused entry, but don’t tell her she could pay the price and enter as a man.
She is a woman!
Kimerlee Ami Soo Ting that’s it right there! Most people are saying if she violated the dress code they should have exercised their right to refuse her admission. Not embarrass her and treat like a man because of how she was dressed.
Well there you go, the situation is subjective. In my opinion she got a Bligh to be considered for entry under the circumstances. I think it’s more embarrassing to be turned away completely.
Aria should introduce vaginas checks on ladies night to ensure that there will be no discrimination.
Nope. That will discriminate against men dressed as ladies and men dressed as men.
I’ve come to the realization….as soon as people who are gay/perceived to be gay/not sure what they are complain about about something…once you’re not in agreement with their grouse you’re a gay bashing bully….allyuh could feel free to miss me with that BS yes…cuz if anybody I know that gay come around me with that mess is a heavy dose ah MC dey getting
She was listed eh and according to policy you have to be listed to get in free on their ladies free policy.
They change their rules conveniently to make you either change your mind or pay. I was once in a party as part of a bridal shower and along with others of my age, asked to pay at a club because of the few seconds we were late. We said no thanks and left.
Good response to that I think.
Thats what you need to do
“men are lust-driven idiots with big wallets…And if the ladies ent paying to go inside, then we ent paying neither, unless the ladies inside are really cute of course”
*scratches head*
Lol. Yeah. That was intentional!
I know..but
*Not one more word*
Lol. Just tried to lighten it a little.
Allyuh play mad and keep forgetting about God. He literally burn out all Homos and who ever stood for it. So go a protest
Vernal, quote: “if women can get in free while dressed as men, then tell us again why men shouldn’t get in free while dressed as men? How can an ethical and progressive group choose between who it liberates from the same fire?”
I’m not bashing her case. I’m throwing something extra to think about for those who want to.
Ms Gomes was discriminated against. But why stop there? There were other people who were discriminated against too. And that’s all I’m saying.
Because it said ladies free, not people dressed a particular way free.
If it said people in high heels free, then anybody in high heels, male or female would have the right to get in for free.
And women’s rights groups are concerned with advocating for women. Just as black civil rights groups are concerned with advocating for blacks and don’t talk about equality for whites.
No problem. And I’m free to look beyond the one person they chose to rally behind. So I did. Free before 10 pm should apply to everyone.
Not just women dressed like stereotypical women and stereotypical men.
Oh, I’m guessing “Butch” is a word that only feminists could use? That one confused me. But I’m not au courant on these stuff.
Certain types of discrimination are acceptable, like lady’s night but no men’s nights! Hahaha
And the ladies not even saying: Help us across the line and we will come back for allyuh… They like: yeah but allyuh does always pay. So what’s the problem? Man up! Hahaha.
Yeah, you are free to look past this one person. All i’m saying is don’t expect a women’s right org to start advocating for men in the same way we don’t expect the NAACP to start advocating for white people. But if men find that there are policies that discriminate against them then there is no problem with men advocating for whatever they consider to be equality.
As for “Butch”, I guess it’s like “queer”. Depends on context. I don’t know. neither is a word that is near the tip of my tongue.
I never said anything was acceptable. What I said was don’t expect minority civil rights organizations to advocate on behalf of members of the majority. But ok.
Right. So let us have our million man march on Aria please! But who the hell would want to go in the club if they decided to let the million men in for free though?! 🙂
You know what else is discrimination?
Senior citizen’s discounts!
Lasana, I checked a UCLA document on LGBTQI terminology and it says:
“Butch – A person who identifies themselves as masculine, whether it be physically, mentally or emotionally, ‘Butch’ is sometimes used as a derogatory term for lesbians, but it can also be claimed as an an affirmative label.”
I think “nigga” and “homo” would fall in the same bracket Chabeth.
Lol Vernal. Well, you might have a point there too. But then we might say that length of service qualifies them to certain breaks that are subsidised by the Gov’t they paid tax to.
I doh thimk so Vernal, at least it applies to all seniors
So you see my point right?
Yeah. But it might considered age-ist Sav. Vernal is saying: Why are those old bats paying less?! Lol. I paraphrase.
It is discriminating against youths. I don’t think you can refuse to hire someone because they are old in the US.
So then you would have to find another reason to give the aged those discounts by that premise.
Their pension is pittance…they’ve paid their dues
Aye!!! Denise Zephrine may be onto something there!!!!
The woman has a flicking vagina (that means she’s classified as female) she was dressed appropriately to be admitted (or else they would have turned her away), so by what rationale was she made to pay if it was lady’s night?
Trinidadians have this way of applying intellectualism where simple common sense would suffice!
Did the host/attendant check for confirmation? Lol
I could only assume! LOL
Gosh Savitri Maharaj !!! Lmao
I agree. So many side issues to distract people from the fact that it is really a cut and dried case. The girl’s sexual orientation and the way she chooses to dress are so irrelevant. Is not like Saucy Pow was trying to get in free wearing drag.
Rose-Marie it is their unbridled prejudice that clouds these people’s judgment!
Very well said. Trinis are a bit intolerant of “gay” looking people. It’s clouding their judgement in this obvious discriminatory case.
This incident has raised a very important point. Why do clubs have these ” “ladies free before a particular time.” I remember it starting to attract females to clubs so there won’t be a “sausage feast” in the club. Nowadays females liming and partying more than males. Clubs like Aria and the others need to end discriminatory practices and allow the females (some who are better paid than there male companions) to be treated the same way as dudes. What’s next females wanting to buy a male carnival costume cause it’s cheaper. Hmmmm!! Good idea !!
Christopher, I would be angry with God too because everywhere I go, people would be bullying and scorning me.
This isn’t against same sex unions or a person’s right to dress however they feel comfortable eh Christopher. It is a fact that Aria discriminated against Ms Gomes.
The point I am raising is that some other sexual discrimination that has been going on for a long time might have been glossed over in this case.
People are always quick to talk about bullying, but never recognize the bully in them.
Ouch
These people angry with God for how he created them.
??? love love love the hashtag!!!
Now they getting gender equality they complaining where were the feminist when women dying in hospitals. Where are they when women are in abusive relationships……
Protesting being discriminated against for not being able to reap the benefits of a discriminatory policy. GTFOH
Hahaaha… Exactly!
Imagine you’re dressing male but upset when you’re treated as male. I bet if someone gave her a frilly pink dress as a Christmas gift is nuff cuss that person get. #convenientfemale
Hahaha i could not say it better Nicole Ulerie
Lol. Very observant synopsis. I agree the protest ain’t worth it. But at the same time going based on logic and principle…if you tell me ladies free and I qualify as a lady then I supposed to get in free. If you wanted only “ladies in miniskirts and pum pum shorts with high heels” then you should say so. If the “freeness” had a caveat all well and good. I would say all her lawyer has to prove is that being a lady Shannon had a “legitimate expectation” that she would get in free.
Clearly the young lady identifies as a man…she cant have her cake and want to eat too
And the men have a case too eh Rose-Marie. Only our money yuh want to take? Lol.
The men have a case and chose not to explore it. Shannon did.
So I can’t explore here Justin? A-a. Womantra wasn’t rolling with Shannon last Friday either eh. 🙂
Ask for ID.
Women doh always walk with ID in clubs
Then problem solved.
Well the thing is Lasana although you could say men are being discriminated against for being required to pay….it’s still their choice. Because they going to Aria expecting that Ladies free and Men not free. So they basically condoning a discriminatory policy by going there anyway. But Shannon case would be different because she was singled out and made to pay as a lady. I guess men free to take up a class action lawsuit….but we in Trinindad after all. Dem happy just to get through. Money or no money!?
Again, let me be clear. I think Aria was wrong to discriminate against Shannon. But I’m just considering that out of everyone who went there last Friday, maybe she wasn’t the only one who was discriminated against.
I realise this is a volatile topic and some people are making points that I don’t subscribe to.
If the hostess is not sure of the gender, what they suppose to do to confirm ?
#soisonlyshannonallyuhseepaying
Steupss absurd and irrelevant go by central bank and protest or something important