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The Ma Pau Morvant Sports Club, almost certainly, will not participate in the 2015/16 Pro League competition, after an about-turn by the Ministry of Sport left the organisation without its registration fee.
And it is possible that the Ma Pau outfit, which participated in the Pro League between 2008 and 2011, may not have another shot at entrance in the local top flight until 2018.
(Courtesy Allan V Crane/Wired868)
There is nothing unusual about a local football club attempting and failing to secure admittance into the Pro League. It happens almost every season.
But it is not every year that a Pro League application leads to a passive aggressive media battle between the Sport Minister and a football coach, suggestions of a pliant Permanent Secretary, a police investigation for fraud and a frustrated community.
The most appealing aspect of Ma Pau’s proposed return to the Pro League is a promised TT$8.5 million refurbishment of a sport ground in Morvant, which the club will share with fellow top flight neighbours, Caledonia AIA, and the community.
And outgoing Laventille East/Morvant MP Donna Cox had hoped her last act as the area’s Parliamentary representative would have been to announce the massive infrastructural work on the sporting ground in the humble community.
Cox said that, over the last five years, she had filed questions in Parliament and written the Ministry of Sport, the Ministry of Education and the Ministry of Planning for help to fix the uneven ground, which is unbearably dusty one minute and flooded the next.
“It just needed refurbishing and some work done,” Cox told Wired868. “A lot of people use it because they don’t have a proper alternative but there is a lot of flooding and it is uneven and so on…
“We talk about crime but, if we are really serious about crime, this is one of the areas that is at risk. But no work has been done in Laventille East/Morvant by the Ministry of Sport. No netball or basketball court, nothing.
“Malick Senior Comprehensive has to go outside its community to train because there is no proper ground here for them… And I also made a plug for it to be the home ground for Caledonia AIA.”
Cox claimed she got nowhere with her pleas for State resources to fix the community ground.
Last month, former Central FC coach Terry Fenwick approached the MP with a promise to completely renovate the ground and she jumped at the offer. There was one caveat.
Ma Pau wanted the Ministry of Sport to support its bid to return to the Pro League.
(Courtesy Allan V Crane/Wired868)
“If the Ministry of Sport is not doing what it is supposed to do and a private company wants to come in and assist, then of course I support it,” said Cox. “I feel they should be allowed to get the job done. Why is it being stopped?
“Why didn’t the Ministry decide to partner with them and get it done?”
The catch was that Ma Pau wanted the Ministry of Sport to foot the bill for its Pro League return, which meant a TT$400,000 payment. The Ma Pau application, though, asked the Government for TT$450,000.
But why did Ma Pau, after promising to spend just over TT$3 million on a football ground before the end of year, not simply pay the Pro League’s comparatively paltry registration fee in the first place?
The Pro League gave Ma Pau chairman John Wallis an assurance that, should he choose to return to the competition, he would not have to pay a registration fee for a second time. But Wallis was not aware—or properly advised by his own staff—that this amnesty carried a deadline. And the club missed it two years ago.
Glen is a former Ma Pau player.
(Courtesy www.bbc.co.uk)
When Wallis and Fenwick sat down in June to discuss Ma Pau’s return to top flight football, there were, according to the coach, two conditions: the club must have a home ground—Wallis was frustrated by Ma Pau being asked to play home games all over the country during his previous Pro League stint—and he would not pay to regain his club’s Pro League status.
From mid-June, Fenwick went into overdrive, as he met and wooed counsellors and regional corporation representatives with Ma Pau’s vision for the Morvant ground.
Inevitably, Fenwick ended up at the Ministry of Sport and in front of his former employer and current Sport Minister, Brent Sancho.
Almost a decade earlier, Fenwick sacked Sancho at San Juan Jabloteh after he grew frustrated with the World Cup 2006 defender’s supposed fondness for night life. But they worked together twice at Central and, earlier this year, the English coach was at the helm when the “Couva Sharks” lifted the Caribbean Club Championship and Digicel Pro League and Pro Bowl titles.
Sancho was already Sport Minister when Fenwick returned to the Sharks and the UNC Senator claimed he had nothing to do with it. But an email between Fenwick, Sancho and his advisor Kevin Harrison suggested otherwise.
(Courtesy SPORTT Company)
At 8.30 am on Monday 23 March 2015, Fenwick asked Harrison, via email, to round his salary off at TT$30,000 per month and confirm his bonus for title success with the Sharks. But Sancho was the person who replied.
“We never agreed to rounding off to 30,” stated Sancho, from his Hotmail address. “It’s 28 and 10%. Please (do) not complicate this as time is of the essence.”
On March 24, Central confirmed that Fenwick would replace Serbian Zoran Vranes as head coach. Harrison claimed then that he made the decision and not Sancho.
Although Central won every available title under Fenwick, the relationship between the trio quickly soured.
At 10.52 am on 25 June 2015, Fenwick wrote a 515-word email to Sancho, Harrison and Central director Daren Mohamdally, in which the former England World Cup player ranted at the club’s supposed mismanagement and warned that the Sharks faced a thrashing from MLS club, LA Galaxy, at the CONCACAF Champions League.
(Courtesy Allan V Crane/Wired868)
“Maybe, in my moment of weakness, I expected CFC (Central FC) to recognise the huge opportunity we have been presented to provide T&T football with a much needed ‘positive’ shot in the arm from the visit of LA Galaxy to Trinidad,” stated Fenwick, as he raged about the club’s failure to sort out players’ contracts and pre-season plans. “… It is unethical to have potential employees waiting on Management and the Board to have an epiphany regarding renewal of contracts! Do you have any regard for people’s lives and families noting that they all have responsibilities to their loved ones!
“I find it not only unprofessional but disingenuous to run your club with people/players’ welfare at your disposal and not communicate with them…
“For me and my players, it is demoralising and quite startling how individuals of self proclaimed pillars of society treat with such disregard their own work force.”
Exactly 31 minutes later, Central manager Jamie Along-Charles emailed Fenwick with bad news: “Dear Terry. The Board and Management of Central FC met to discuss your proposed contractual requirement. Unfortunately at this time they will not be able to facilitate your request.
“As such, they wish to sincerely thank you for your services rendered to the club.”
(Courtesy TT Pro League)
Regardless, Fenwick took coach Keon Trim along to explain to Sancho and Harrison—in their official capacities at the Ministry of Sport—why the Government should support Ma Pau’s bid to enter the Pro League.
There had been a precedent as, just last year, the Government paid registration fees for Point Fortin Civic. But Sancho, despite his football background, did not support Ma Pau’s bid.
What neither Sancho nor Harrison knew is that Fenwick had already gotten the necessary approval from Ministry of Sport Permanent Secretary Gillian Macintyre, who, as the Ministry’s financial officer, does not need Cabinet or Ministerial oversight within a TT$1 million limit.
“We went to (Sancho) with the complete proposal for Ma Pau and he gave us every possible excuse why he could not do it,” said Fenwick. “I gave them six different ways they could back it because of the level of funding put out by corporate Trinidad.
“Everything they said was a contradiction because we already had an agreement from the PS and we knew that Point Fortin had already received money before us.”
(Courtesy Allan V Crane/Wired868)
The Sport Ministry contacted Pro League CEO Dexter Skeene and advised that it chose to support Ma Pau’s bid and foot its supposed $450,000 registration fee.
There was no consensus as to why the Government wrote a cheque for $450,000 and not $400,000 and, arguably, it showed a flaw in the internal process at the Ministry.
Fenwick and a Sport Minister official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, claimed they were verbally told the fee for entry was $450,000 while the Pro League officials could not remember ever saying so.
Clearly, nobody got anything in writing from the Pro League about its registration fee, yet, despite that fact, a cheque was drawn up for Ma Pau. Furthermore, the cheque was made made out to Ma Pau Morvant Sports Club and not the Pro League.
Skeene, a former “Strike Squad” player, thought the incorrect figure was an error and not fraud.
“If I had any problems with Ma Pau’s application, I would not have put forward their application to the (Pro League board),” Skeene told Wired868. “Or I would have at least hinted (about the problem) to the board.”
(Courtesy Allan V Crane/ Wired868)
Harrison, despite his role with the Sport Ministry, was present at the Pro League’s board meeting and was stunned to hear that Ma Pau’s application was supported by the Ministry of Sport.
“I went to the Pro League meeting to present info on the delays in their subventions and so on,” Harrison told Wired868. “The Chairman said there was an application to enter the Pro League when they opened up the meeting and presented a cheque (from the Sport Ministry). I said I knew nothing about it at all and neither does the Minister.”
The Pro League clubs did not support Ma Pau’s bid and, ironically, there was grumbling by club representatives that Fenwick had used his influence with Sancho and Harrison to gain an unfair advantage.
In truth, Harrison was fuming and he sped straight back to the Ministry’s PS, Macintyre, for answers. The English football administrator claimed that he and Sancho implemented a system in which Harrison reviewed any cheques issued by the Sport Ministry for over $20,000.
“Once a cheque is issued, I would review the file to ensure all the processes are followed,” said Harrison. “This is something we put in place when we came into the Ministry because of the Life Sport thing to make sure we don’t issue money to the wrong people.”
Looking on is then Central FC operations director Kevin Harrison (top left).
(Courtesy Allan V Crane/Wired868)
Was Fenwick the “wrong people?”
Harrison questioned Macintyre about the Ma Pau cheque and asked her to withdraw it.
“When I went back to the Ministry, I saw the PS and asked if she issued a cheque for $450,000 to Ma Pau and she said yes,” said Harrison. “And I said it was declined and you can get it back. When we then looked at the file, we realised there were a number of discrepancies… So the PS decided to take it to the police.”
One of the suggestions, raised in a subsequent Trinidad Guardian article, was that Fenwick sent photographs that fraudulently misrepresented the state of the Morvant ground by showing a spanking track around it.
The bemused Englishman countered that he had merely shown the ground in its current condition and then used photographs of a foreign track to show what it would like after work was completed.
Macintyre never questioned Fenwick, though. She ordered the coach to return the cheque, which he did, and, although the PS herself signed off on the application, the police began interviewing Sport Ministry officials on the matter.
However, the Pro League never formally rejected Ma Pau’s proposal and Skeene contradicted Harrison’s report to the PS.
“I don’t know where (Harrison) is getting this idea about the finality of the thing,” said Skeene. “The Pro League always continues to assist teams and we continue to try to help Ma Pau to get into the league… It is a continuing process.”
Adams died on 30 December 2013 after failing to recover from a heart attack.
(Courtesy Allan V. Crane/Wired868)
Had Harrison overstepped his boundaries by instructing the PS to withdraw the cheque for Ma Pau?
And had Macintyre erred by taking instructions from Harrison rather than the Pro League Chairman or CEO?
Wired868 failed to reach Macintyre for comment. Harrison denied he was working against Ma Pau’s bid.
“We said we can’t find a way and he went around (Sancho and I) and submitted an application and he got turned down by the Pro League,” said Harrison. “I certainly had no say in how they voted because I wasn’t a voting member. It had nothing to do with me.”
Was there any ill-feeling between Sancho, Harrison and Fenwick?
“I don’t know (but) I see there is a post on Facebook calling me a liar,” said Harrison, in reference to a comment made by Fenwick’s wife and local attorney, Reyna Kowlessar. “I was told by two independent sources that Terry said he got money from the Ministry of Sport without me or Brent knowing about it. And he was laughing…”
Caledonia AIA coach Jamaal Shabazz said he abstained from the vote when Ma Pau’s application was raised before the Pro League board. Since then, he met with Fenwick and has been rallying other clubs to support Ma Pau.
(Courtesy Allan V Crane/ Wired868)
“I had heard rumours that the regional corporation had given the ground in our Morvant community to Ma Pau and I abstained at that point to get more clarity,” Shabazz told Wired868. “Now that I have information to the contrary, I feel it is necessary for Caledonia to support Ma Pau’s entry into the League…
“The Ma Pau franchise would be able to employ at least 35 of our grassroots people and, while politicians continue to promise, the young people have to (be able to) eat.”
Shabazz suggested that Ma Pau might win a second vote from Pro League clubs but claimed the team’s bid was being undermined by “senior officials at the Sport Ministry.”
“Each club owner has their say and their vote and, because we own the league, we can change our minds as we have done and amend rules according to the situations that we face,” said Shabazz. “I’m hearing that there are senior officials in the Ministry who are trying to put stumbling blocks. I have spoken to one or two clubs who said that senior officials have insinuated that Terry Fenwick did not use proper information to secure the Ministry’s help…
North East Stars coach Angus Eve is in the foreground.
(Courtesy Allan V Crane/Wired868)
“I can understand if you stop a man from doing bad. So if Fenwick trying to do something bad, I can understand (that) they stop it. But he is trying to do something good, so I can’t see why they want to stop him.
“And I am saying this as no friend of Terry Fenwick and it angers me when people think for some reason I shouldn’t stand up for him.
“I am not standing up for him, I am standing up for fair play in football. This is our livelihood and we have to make this industry work.”
Shabazz suggested that the Pro League needs Fenwick at least as much as he needs the Pro League.
“I see Terry Fenwick as a warrior like us and he brings a certain amount of competitiveness and finesse as a coach in the league,” said Shabazz. “He is second only to Stuart Charles (Fevrier) in terms of winning titles in the Pro League and for that he has my respect… Caledonia would vote in favour of Ma Pau, despite the fact that on the field I am a fierce competitor against Terry Fenwick.
Looking on is W Connection coach Stuart Charles-Fevrier.
(Courtesy Allan V Crane/Wired868)
“We may never be friends but I think he has a place in Trinidad and Tobago’s football. And, as a Muslim, I have a command from Allah to stand up for justice.
“Allah says: ‘Oh ye who believe, stand up firmly for justice, even if it is against yourself.’ Despite my combative vibes with Mr Fenwick, I think in fairness to the work he has done, he should be in the league.”
However, Skeene said the time-consuming furore within the Ministry of Sport over Ma Pau’s application has probably killed the team’s chances of playing in the Pro League this season.
The Pro League is due to kick off with a Digicel Charity Shield fixture on September 11 while the official competition is scheduled to begin on September 25.
“I think there was a remote possibility for Ma Pau to come into the league last month,” said Skeene. “It was very tight. Right now, it would probably be next season.”
The new TTFA constitution, which was approved by its executive committee but must still make its way through the regional associations, calls for a promotion and relegation system between the Pro League and National Super League.
Looking on is Edinburgh goalkeeper Joel Sansavior.
(Courtesy Allan V Crane/Wired868)
When that occurs, clubs will have to earn their entrance into the top flight by slogging it out in the Super League, which now has two divisions.
It would mean that Ma Pau and other ambitious clubs must spend at least two years battling their way past over 30 community teams before they can even apply to the Pro League.
“The Pro League board still has to finalise the matter of promotion and relegation,” said Skeene. “We are looking to have a discussion with the TTFA. I would like it to (have promotion) but we have to have discussions… It will place a totally different dimension on things.”
It means that local football fans might have a long wait before they see Fenwick coaching in the top flight again.
Shabazz would miss the combative Englishman, although there may be just as many rivals who would say ‘good riddance.’ Fenwick, outspoken, combative and provocative, has always split opinions in the local game, even though his titles speak for themselves.
(Courtesy Allan V Crane/Wired868)
Cox suggested that Morvant/Laventille would be the biggest losers, though.
“I am really disappointed with all the foolishness that is going on,” said Cox. “Anybody who wants to do something to uplift the grounds, I am very grateful for it… If someone is willing to pump money into sport, then shouldn’t (the Ministry of Sport) be happy?
“There must be some underlying confusion going on that we do not know about. I don’t think any right-thinking person will not want that to happen.”
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Lasana Liburd is the managing director and chief editor at Wired868.com and a journalist with over 20 years experience at several Trinidad and Tobago and international publications including Play the Game, World Soccer, UK Guardian and the Trinidad Express.
People… somebody… ask Chabeth Haynes, how many local games he/she attended in the last season??? I would love to hear the level of support from this person.
I get your point
If there’s money to do both, why don’t we have heavy state investment at the grassroots level?
The UNC consistently ran deficit budgets. They put the country in debt with their foolishness. Debt means we have no money.
My sole objection with this situation is with the state giving money to private for profit companies. That is my only objection. I have no objection to the development of football or any other sport at any level.
I am not following.
If the state wanted to take over the whole pro league, I would not have a problem.
My problem is with a policy that allows taxpayers dollars to be used to pay the salaries of employees of a private company. In any sector.
And for the record, I don’t support giving Sat anything. Money. An audience. Anything.
There is money to do both Chabeth why you trying to tie the people pockets. The UNC show us how ordinary people could become millionaires in 5 years. Why the footballers cannot get the industry built up. We never steal an airport we never bring in any land rovers is b14 we does buy.
Why when it comes to Eric Williams children benifitting the state cannot do this and cannot do that. But when Sat and the clothe people children have to benefit these issues do not come into play.
And more money is being spent on the elite which can accommodate fewer people than on the grassroots which can accommodate and where greater guidance is needed especially in terms of keeping kids away from crime.
Jamaal, but I just said let the government pay you how much ever to run a youth program so that the whole country is dealing with Jamaal the coach.
I am not saying people don’t have a right to state funds. I am saying it is madness to use state funds to pay employees of private companies which is what is happening with the pro league.
And notice you mentioned a goal of one year eh. So again, I ask, how old is the pro league and when do these private clubs plan to become self sufficient?
I don’t have a problem with the state helping in the beginning, but it cannot be that taxpayers dollars are going to private entities in perpetuity.
Each has its role
Football has components . Grassroots like you talking about but there is also elite. When you plant the corn you have to develop a market to promote market and sell the corn. That is what the pro league will do.
The state should help build industry that is what chamber and commerce is about. Building the industry is not just handing out cash. If they give me the ground in Morvant we will build a stadium and after 1 year i do not want any state funds God willing. Our people have a right to state funds in so far as it is to assist in building an industry to generate economic activity . The social spin offs I am a testimony. Chabeth you prefer to deal with Jamaal Shabazz as a coach or jamaal shabazz a gang leader misleading the young people.
How old is the pro league and how long is it going to take these teams to become self sufficient? It seems as if there is no expiration date on the use of taxpayers’ dollars for this.
I know nothing of the government propping up the horse racing industry. If that happened, that too is madness. Only rich people can afford to buy horses, so why the state should get involved is beyond me. But when you have a policy that says the state will offset operating costs for private sporting entities, then if the state does it for football, you cannot be vex if they do it for another sport. I think it is bad policy all around.
Jamaal Shabazz, the community clubs that you speak of are the same as the pro league clubs?
Let me make it clear, I have no problem with the state investing in football, but this is not the way to do it. I would have absolutely no problem, Jamaal, if for example the state paid you how much ever thousands a month for you to spearhead a youth football program across east POS and environs. You would have a team of properly paid coaches, you all would have practice across various venues every day and when a kid doesn’t show up for practice, you go and find out why. Shoot, the state could buy boots for all of them. I have no problem with that.
You and Lasana are talking about this pro league as some sort of vehicle for keeping kids off the street. The pro league is big hardback men. Their relationship to crime has already been established. If you want to use football as a crime prevention strategy then your target audience has to be much much younger. You have to get to kids before they are 10, 11… I know, and I’m sure you do too, of kids who start transporting drugs and being consistently raped by men at that young age. Those are the people you are targeting if you want to claim you are using sport to prevent crime, not big grown men.
The current arrangement with the government giving up to $87,000 per month to these teams is not doing anything to prevent crime. That’s over a million dollars to one club that could go into a national youth program for football or any other sport.
I think it’s great that Ma Pau was willing to spend over $8 million to refurbish the field, but if they are getting $1 million back from the government annually, then they make back their money in 8 years, so fixing this field was an investment, not generosity. And if I could work that out, you think the Ma Pau people didn’t? They were interested in how they would make their money back. Well, as a taxpayer I’m interested in how I am making this money back.
Are these pro league games aired on television? If they’re not and the state wants to help promote the pro league, tell them put the games on CNMG. Make it easy for us to watch the games. Maybe eventually, we show up to games and help generate revenue for these teams that way. I have no problem with that strategy.
Giving corporate incentive is ideal I’m a society where corporate enterprise understands the role they should play in helping to build the nation by sponsorship in sports and culture. Most pro leagues in the world started with a major input from corporations or state. Then after years they can move to stability and self sufficiency. These are still days where clubs need that help from government. Prof Carlos Govt prop up the horse racing industry for years I ain’t hear a cry. Trust me the investment made in the community clubs are much needed and preventative in nature. Let it stop and see who will pick up that slack with our young people
Hi Carlos Lee, thanks!
Tax breaks are always a good idea. I know with the local film industry however, they didn’t work out as the Manning government had hoped. Companies still weren’t very keen to support film development. But I have no objection to trying it with sport, if it’s not already in place. Who knows, it might work for that sector.
I think the bottom line however, is that we don’t have a very generous corporate culture here, at least it feels that way.
It would be great if somebody could produce a document showing what percentage of their profits, corporate Trinidad and Tobago invests in socially beneficial initiatives. Maybe they do give a lot and I just don’t know.
Kester Lendor, where yuh? (And I know that you’re not sold on the Pro League either. Lol)
Mr. Haynes. Not taking a dig at you personally. But I think your view of the necessity of the Pro League is a bit myopic.
Football has long left the realm of amateurism and is firmly in the realm of professional pursuits. this professionalism has resulted in a significant elevation in the quality of football played at all age levels and the revenues generated by the sport. If Trinidad & Tobago is to compete on the global level, it is imperative that we have at least one professional league in operation, forming a pool of players from which the national squads will be picked.
An endeavour like this is going to require, initially, government assistance and funding until it can stand on its own. It should not be allowed to fail but I also will assert that it cannot become another Caroni (1975) Ltd., propped up by successive governments despite massive losses and few material benefits.
The clubs will need to be run as professional commercial entities, hopefully profitable ones, with revenues coming in through a combination of gate receipts, sales and sponsorship. Once the league itself has a viable business plan (which it does), I see no problem with the teams receiving government funding in the initial years of existence. And that would apply to the formation of a professional local league for *any* sporting discipline. For a government to do less by its sportsmen is to reduce them to ensured vagrancy status, as their chances for success and further development will be severely limited.
I fully support your sentiments Chabeth Haynes. Great points of view. A better way for government to get involved in supporting professional sports like football is to create better policies to encourage businesses to financially support these sporting organizations. If not already in place, businesses who donate $$$$ to sporting organizations should be afforded tax breaks. Their corporate social responsibility track record should also carry attaboy points when applying for government contracts. Many of these businesses, including the banking sector, make billions off the backs of customers who support them. However, these businesses hesitate to participate in initiatives that benefits society.
Refreshing to hear all the cries to stop funding, i wonder if any of these people did the math on the figure in total that is given for young footballers to keep focus on their chosen profession, maybe less than ten million dollars per year, really people, really, this is the topic for discussion. The B.P.L is one of the richest leagues in the world and does any one know that Sport England still gives money to football in England, despite the richness of the league. They are hundred plus years old yet still the government sees the need to give smaller clubs financial assistance. Let me stop here hope some of us take the time to research what is happening and not give heart felt opinions.
And you don’t like dancers, pick singers instead. My overall point was that there are other industries that are high earning…
And the argentine state was paying the salaries of employees of argentine privately owned football clubs?
But Argentina isn’t even a good example. Idk how they get so much props in the international football world. They have one legit WC title. A glorified footballing country best I could tell.
What’s Brazil’s development history?
And I agree, no sport can generate the revenue that football can which is why the state shouldn’t even have to get involved in the pro league. These clubs are just being encouraged to be lazy because they have the state to fall back on. If Ma Pau was willing to spend 8 mil and then some to refurbish a field in Morvant, you know how much money they have to have? There’s no way they would need state funding to run their club.
Pro league clubs are not private for profit entities? They register as non- profits? Because the clubs being private for profit entities is the source of my issue and the basis of my entire argument. Lol. So if they’re non profits you should have said so earlier. ???
I don’t see clubs as private for profit entities. That is for starters. I think out divergence of ideas starts there. Lol.
Professional football in Argentina and Mexico is probably around 100 years old btw. And the State was pumping not taxpayers dollars into Argentine football up to the early 80s.
And there is no single sport in the world that matches the financial might of football. That isn’t even a debate. Lol.
There are footballers who never won anything that probably earn more than the best five dancers on the planet.
I’m not advocating for the shutting down of any league. I love football too… Not to the point of being blindly biased like you clearly, (lol) but I love the game all the same. (Apparently no one else in the group watched the Argentina/Mexico friendly the other night) but from a purely public policy standpoint, the current pro league arrangement is madness.
Lasana. Dear. I am not understanding what you are not understanding.
Thesis statement: it is bad policy to use taxpayers’ money to fund the activities of private for profit companies.
These clubs are private entities and the state is paying the salaries of their employees? Are you serious? Lol.
By that rationale you have no problem with the state paying the salaries of all bank employees if the banks can’t afford to do it? Because obviously we can’t allow the banking sector to just fail.
That is not how it works in the private sector. If you cannot afford to run your business, you shut it down or sell it.
That is what should apply to the entire private sector.
If these clubs cannot afford to exist, then somebody else should take them over. If that somebody else is the state then so be it. But the state cannot be paying the salaries of employees of private companies.
And such a flippant dismissal of the dance class. You have any idea how much money there is to be made in the entertainment industry out there. It’s not properly supported here (outside of carnival) so ppl struggle to make it… But entertainers can easily surpass the earnings of footballers. Easily.
Trinidad’s private sector by and large are not looking for investment opportunities. Just hand outs from the State too.
You cannot just cut off the footballers and tell them to find private sector funding or get a job.
Then you will need to employ them elsewhere anyway. Or they will find more unsavory jobs.
The football industry might need propping up. But it is an industry.
If I put the number of footballers who left pro league in the last three years to earn salaries abroad and send money home. No other sport will compare.
No sense comparing it to dance class.
How many grown men are in the pro league Lasana? Take that number put them in a squad training together, then divide them into teams and let them play each other.
My problem isn’t with a league. It’s with taxpayers money being used to offset the operational costs of private entities. The government can pay for the whole thing. That doesn’t bother me.
But if you’re going to pay for grown men to play football, then why not pay for girls to dance and boys to go hiking. Once you keep kids involved in activities you keep them off the street. So football (contrary to what you might think ?) is not more important than other things and taxpayer dollars cannot fund everything. And certainly shouldn’t fund the activities of for profit private entities.
Have your football league, I’m not trying to take that away from you. Lol. Corporate Trinidad and Tobago has a lot of money. Taxpayers do not need to be funding the pro league.
The international game doesn’t work like that. The only decent opposition you will get are during international match windows. That might be 15 games a year or 1,350 minutes per year. Now how do you divide that team between 50 players?
You cannot have a strong national team without players playing regularly at the best possible standard. Our schools league is not good enough to prepare anyone for higher football and the Pro League is the best we can do.
There is the Super League too which is largely amateur. But it means players don’t get to spend as much time at their craft.
To do away with your domestic league is to do away with football. The only reason you were cheering during the Gold Cup is because of the Pro League.
Four years ago, it was an almost totally locally team that helped us qualify for our first Gold Cup in seven years. We then hired Hart and our football has been at a decent level ever since.
The two examples you just gave can be lumped into the same category as the current arrangement the state has with the pro league – bad public policy.
That is my point. It is bad policy to pay rent for an unoccupied building and it is bad to pay lawyers insane amounts for little work.
I understand it’s late. So I’ll give you guys some time to sleep and regroup and come back with stronger arguments. ??
(Starting with… If we can’t really afford to have a properly funded pro league, why not do away with it (especially when it apparently can’t even be scheduled at the right time of year), have nothing but a national senior squad of 50 or so guys, pay them properly etc, and play friendlies with higher quality teams than what we would be playing against in the pro league, in preparation for international competition. I bet more ppl would come out to those matches than come out to the pro league at the moment.)
Chabeth Haynes, we have a Catch 22. What our Pro League clubs spend in a year, most MLS teams would spend in their designated player alone in one month.
Money isn’t everything but it helps. Pro League clubs should do more to raise cash themselves. But we won’t be going in the right direction if we started pulling money away.
Especially when Faris’ family is earning millions in rent for an unoccupied building. And lawyers put in a $12 million bill for two half hour court appearances in Jack Warner court case.
One bad deed doesn’t make another okay. But the Pro League just needs better oversight. Elsewhere the treasury is being raped in broad daylight.
Both teams werent prepared for that tournament esp central Fc… Keep in mind these matches are in our off season… Look at the Local based players that are performing so well on the national team
Sherdon Ifm Pierre, are you serious? Again, not to diss the pro league, but have you watched the CONCACAF champions league? Over four matches our two teams have combined to score one goal. So when you say “high”… relative to what?
Well I am nobody’s parent, but I know parents who get excited and hyped about their kids graduating from pre-school as if every kid doesn’t do that. So I really don’t know how big anybody is dreaming for their kid these days. But I take your point…
The level of the pro league is higher than most think..My only Problem is that teams need to focus on other stuff than football
Playing in the pro league is a good transition point. Your dream isn’t for your children to have a primary school education either. But you know it will take them a step closer to university. ?
And not to diss the pro league… But is playing in the pro league a kid’a dream here? Or are they all trying to get scholarships to the US and then play professionally overseas? So is the pro league really the goal? Is that what’s keeping kids focused?
Lol. Depends. If you want returns on investment, you are talking about football or cricket which can quicker bring something back financially.
But I agree that other sports should be helped although they are less developed at the moment and their sports probably aren’t as lucrative.
For instance, the amount of students that get sport scholarships from the country and the millions that saves us and the way it helps us develop our work force… Our government should probably spend more on school sports and ensure better equipment and that sport grounds are properly taken care of.
Footballers don’t get elite athlete assistance money btw.
In any case, my issue is oversight not the spending.
And I didn’t say investment in football should stop altogether eh. I said we should stop offsetting operating costs for private entities. That’s an across the board policy.
And which young ppl are you talking about? The pro league is all adults, no?
How many millions annually are we talking? Are you going to advocate that we spend that amount of money in another sport?
I feel like you might have a football bias. ??
And you do get returns on money invested when you convince a boy born in a family of gangsters to earn his living as a player rather than a criminal I think.
I think Trinidad is better off with the Pro League.
Each pro league club has between 20 to 30 players and between eight to 20 staff members. So the league employs between 250 to 500 persons.
There is transport to games by players and fans, concession stands, use of the government stadia which are largely idle outside SSFL.
The chance for young people to focus on something productive.
Kenwyne Jones, Jason Scotland, Carlos Edwards, Dennis Lawrence and Khaleem Hyland are just some examples of players who started in the pro league and some would have earned millions by the time their career is over.
At one time, Kenwyne was earning a million in a fortnight.
I believe we can talk about better oversight on money spent in the pro league. But to say it should be stopped altogether or that it is wasted is crazy to me.
And how are the monies that the state gives recouped?
You mentioned calypso earlier. When the state gives money to private tents, the tents draw crowds who in turn attend calypso fiesta and dimanche gras etc which are for profit events run by state organisations, not private ones. Whether they make a profit etc is debatable.
But the point is, it is bad public policy, especially for a country with a developing economy to be offsetting operating costs for private entities.
Furthermore, if the state wants to help develop football and keep kids off the street, why are they investing all this money on the uppermost pyramid level and on adults? Youth football can employ ppl and has health and community benefits.
I just think it’s bad policy. If your opinion differs then we disagree. As is customary. Lol.
Pro League subventions assist football clubs and are generally spent on salaries. They do not help private companies get richer.
The money doesn’t go to corporations really. I think the Government should supervise more closely to ensure that it is all spent the way we would want.
But the money goes pay salaries really. Please understand that Ma Pau will be spend a few million over the course of the season on salaries not counting what they spend on the field.
Clubs get between 60,000 to 83,000 a month from the Government. And player salaries are generally between 70,000 and 150,000 per month. So it would be wrong to believe that companies are siphoning up the money.
Despite Ma Pau’s odd stance on the registration fee, they are definitely going to spend a lot of money on its football team.
Why? Social responsibility? A love for sport?
There isn’t a single company that gets involved in local football to make money.
Instead, I’m sure businessmen like Darryl Mahabir and David John Williams try to ensure they don’t haemorrage too much cash.
Of course there are some smart men in between who try to pocket a dollar or two. But that’s another story.
Don’t hold your breath Chabeth.
My main objection is with taxpayers’ money going to assist for profit corporations in any way.
If the government wants to spend the necessary millions a year developing football leagues from kiddies to the pro league, and ensured that coaches and officials at the various levels get paid properly, I would have no objection.
But to give corporations that probably have profit margins in the millions, taxpayer dollars, I find offensive.
How old is the pro league? How long do these clubs need to develop themselves properly as businesses?
Chabeth Haynes, the idea is to grow the football industry by helping the clubs while they improve themselves as businesses. It keeps many young people off the street and gainfully employed and so on. So it has a social benefit and a health and community benefit.
The problem is there isn’t really any oversight to see if clubs are any closer to being self-sufficient. And clubs generally get to do as they like with the money as far as I’ve seen.
Still, we all know certain industries would collapse without State assistance and they are too important to let die. Calypso would be an extreme example.
It started as something for community clubs but quickly spread to even teams who have sponsors. So it is hard to say why Ma Pau should not get it if W Connection and San Juan Jabloteh and North East Stars get it despite having sponsors.
Why does Ma Pau want the Sport Ministry to pay its registration fee? I find that bizarre too as Ma Pau can clearly afford it. So it seems an odd bit of gamesmanship.
But the deal is still a good one for Morvant/Laventille as Donna Cox and Jamaal Shabazz said. So Ma Pau is insisting on some give and take and it makes sense to compromise when most clubs have no home grounds.
My understanding is teams in rural or areas of high unemployment can access funds to allow for assistance in underwriting the running overhead costs of teams, or for the hiring of team staff, including players. Additionally, the logic is if we keep the youth gainfully involved, it should decrease or positively impact crime statistics, drinking, smoking, self esteem etc. lastly, playing in the Pro League can enhance community pride and allow for a fun family entertainment option. Just a part of the logic. Hope it helps..
No I definitely am not saying that and if you look at my response I said they are not re: the turf. But I think rules and precedents are that and consistency across the board helps to prevent these nightmares from occurring. Great thread and I think it’s refreshing reading the comments.
I am not understanding why taxpayers are giving money to pro league teams. But it’s probably too complicated to explain to me here so I’ll stay ignorant on this one. Good night.
That was my primary point. Secondly, I did say it would be good to see in black and white what the objective criteria being used by the MOS to evaluate such requests are.