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When you have just finished sermonising, in the wake of a murdered young woman, and the first person to offer you a “thumbs up” would probably be ex-Port of Spain Mayor Raymond Tim Kee… Maybe you didn’t appeal to the target audience you had in mind.
Prime Minister Dr Keith Rowley began his public speaking tour entitled “14 Conversations with the Prime Minister”—the adjective ‘condescending’ is understood—at the Maloney Shopping Centre last night where he suggested that victims of domestic violence need to take a good hard look at themselves in the mirror.
Presumably through swollen eyes.
(Courtesy Caribbean News Service)
“You call on the Prime Minister to do something about crime: I’m not in your bedroom, I’m not in your choice of men. You have a responsibility to determine who you associate with and know when to get out and the State will try to help.”
Maybe PSA boss Watson Duke should call Keithos as an expert witness if his own alleged sexual misconduct matter reaches to the High Court.
It was like “Life in Leggings” for misogynists—and clearly delivered by a man who forgot that his own temperament has been compared to that of a Rottweiler and raging bull. Considering Rowley’s own past indiscretions with tea cups, would his family have themselves to blame if he hits someone with a saucer around the dinner table?
But then, arguably, Keithos was following the same line of thought as when he bouffed citizens for expecting the Government to improve their living conditions from taxpayers’ dollars and insisted they fend for themselves.
Murders, Keithos implied, start with the poor judgment of the murder victim. Why else would a murder victim associate with a murderer other than if they want to be murdered? It kinda makes sense if you don’t think about it.
Or, to use his logic in another setting, should the homeowner shoulder blame for not making his house burglar proof if a thief gets in?
The Prime Minister is clearly on a roll. The problem is he is going downhill. No doubt, he has acting Commissioner of Police Stephen Williams for company in that race to the bottom.
As always, the Prime Minister’s supporters begged citizens to look past his ‘in-eloquence’—or ‘alternative manners’—for a grain of sensibility in his comments.
But just how do you know the man who gave you a ‘sweet eye’ at a party or on the maxi stand is a murderer if he hasn’t actually murdered anybody yet? Is Keithos giving dating tips now? And what is his fascination with the bedrooms of strange women?
Based on the prevailing mood of anxiety, Mr Live Wire feels compelled to publish a survival dossier with warning signs that a potential murderer or abuser is in your midst:
Arms: Murderers find these very handy in grabbing, subduing or attacking victims;
Testicles: Rapists are rarely spotted without them;
Legs: Great for getaways and can also be used as weapons;
Head: These are often used to devise murderous schemes or, in the case of mindless political fanatics, to headbutt victims.
So your best chance of safety in these perilous times is to surround yourself with headless people who have no balls, cannot grasp anything happening around them and are incapable of standing on their own two feet.
Only this time he keeps his hands to himself.
(Courtesy Sean Morrison/Wired868)
No doubt, Keithos has chosen his Cabinet wisely then.
Soca artist Bunji Garlin took a notably different stance to his Prime Minister:
“We need to teach some of them males to be men too. Let us defend the women. Nobody say it is going to be easy [but] it’s our women, we have to defend them. If you going out the road and you see a man roughing up a woman in the public… Soldier, rally and get help, because that woman could die right there.”
Garlin gets it. And that from a young man who puts on a mask and goes to work in an alcohol-laced, sexually-charged, adult-only environment.
But then even soca fetes are conducted on a higher moral plane than Parliament these days. Hands up if you think Gerald Ramdeen or Darryl Smith could get past the screening process at some of today’s all-inclusive parties.
In the midst of the furore, President Anthony Carmona is probably relaxing with a glass of presidential wine. Nobody is studying him and his nani right now.
Pope Francis welcomes Trinidad and Tobago President Anthony Carmona (left) during a private audience on 6 July 2013 at the Vatican. (Copyright AFP 2016/Gabriel Bouys)
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http://wired868.com/2017/02/11/tt-national-womens-player-murdered-ttfas-mourns-for-15-year-old-abiela-adams/
http://www.trinidadexpress.com/20170209/editorial/8216lock-them-up-before-they-hit-you8217
Agreed, but why limit it to domestic violence…why domestic only ?
Maybe it might be easier to tackle?
I think it’s because of the emotional attachment and the impact it has on kids.
Most likely it’s because they want to stop the violence in homes first which is known to influence children behaviour patterns, and eventually lead to more violence eventually
Makes sense though. Society is a reflection of families. Intervention to protect and strengthen families should be good.
Snr. Supt. comment on young school girls
http://www.guardian.co.tt/news/2017-02-10/criminals-cause-sepos-teachers-skip-classes
Transcript: “Approximately one third of the murders in the last month have been domestic related issues. Now, what is the role of the police in preventing that? or should I say the State? You know what the State did? These domestic issues usually start, or ending, with women in difficulty in relationships and the state intervene and puts something called protection order in place to deal with women and their men, that and all is creating a basis for violent crime. One third of the murders in recent times are domestic violence or domestic issues, and then you call on the Prime Minister to do something about crime. I am not in your bedroom, I’m not in your choice of men. (applause from the audience). You have a responsibility to determine who you associate with, and know when to get out, and the state will try to help, but then, when the tragedy occurs, and it becomes the police, the police must now go the extra mile to ensure there is detection, because in the absence of proper detection those who would ordinarily have been law abiding have an incentive to become law breakers.”
Sorry… I’m confused… Is he saying that domestic abusers would have been law abiding citizens if not for being provoked by their “loved” ones seeking protection from the police…? I don’t follow his logic…
I personally have not presented, engaged, or asked about that line, Natalia, because there was just too much drama circling to add another, and i found it phenomenal that no one else noticed that. but from the very night when I heard him I was like. pause. stillness. WHAT???
but really, all I wanted to say here, was to Lasana, that quote to me. does not achieve its nadir or full heights without prefacing it with the question that was asked and posed to the man.
the first of many huge errors in this whole fiasco, is someone responding all left, on a right turn question.
WOW
no one has said it. and i dont understand how. but to me. something is wrong in these scenes we are engaging and seeing. something that in any other arena, I think smart people will look at each other and ask is someone having some kind of mental challenge, breakdown, break in reality, thinking processes. what> something. just bizarre and confusing beyond reason…and confusion is when aspects that are to align, dont.
does that response to the spoken question. and the statement itself, make any sense? of someone supposedly intelligent? or someone perhaps programmed whose messages and coding were getting jumbled. like an error in the files?
i noticed too watching new videos that the man was all taped up and had wires in his ears. for a conversation.
have they yet made physical holograms yet? has the technology reached that far?
No matter how you hang it and swing it..when a woman is tragically murdered..the correct response could never be “she look fuh dat”. If she did pick a better man she wouldn’t be dead today. That is on the same level as Tim Kee. If she wasn’t playing Mas and maybe drinking ..she wouldn’t be dead. The only person to blame for someone getting killed is the killer. Yes we have to teach our daughters to be discerning of the men they associate with. It starts from childhood…bringing up a child to be brimming with self esteem and confidence. So that she will recognize potentially dangerous men. It might not always work…some men are devious snakes. But from the time de man shout at you hard or start to raise his hand..he better live to regret it. That is a good conversion to have but not the time and place and after a tragic murder. But the amount of clap Rowley get from the audience after he made that statement said more than Rowley himself.
Time and place, position, audience. But what about victims of other types of domestic violence? It is easy to recognise a situation of physical abuse. His simplistic take on a complicated issue, supported by numerous women, highlights a dangerous level of ignorance across the board. The only way to turn this around is to now have a national conversation with relevant players-social workers, lawyers, magistrates, police, ngos etc to educate and enlighten himself, the nation, the victims and potential future victims.
He Is A Mad Crazy And Confounded Jackass As A Leader Of A Country That Is The Kind Of Remarks He Go Use As A PM Remember Former PM Patrick Manning Said He Is A Rothwiler So Now He Ready To Bark And Bite
Out of context Lasana ?
http://www.trinidadexpress.com/20170208/news/men-there-is-life-after-a-horn-get-help
Any chance of victim blaming here Lasana ?
Victim blaming how? Anyone has a right to leave a relationship. Nobody has a right to physically assault someone.
You know that right? Lol.
I asking papa
So no chance of victim blaming here … okay !
Smh…
Dear God, please tell me this man is not comparing people offering mental health services to men who have been horned or otherwise been in a bad relationship to a PM telling women to choose their men better to avoid being killed. Please. PLEASE. PLEASE.
What’s your advice to women of the nation Fayola ?
Why do only women need advice Kirwin?
Because as of now they are the mostly the victims in domestic violence cases
We teach defensive driving and also have campaigns to encourage people not to drink and drive or speed. We do not end road carnage by telling victims well you didn’t watch out for crazy drivers and drive defensively enough.
Yet we all know to do that right?
Fayola, if the PM encourages people to wear seat belts and practice road safety due to a high rate of vehicular accidents…is that victim blaming ?
If he says that right after a drunk driver kills someone not wearing a seatbelt? Yeah. He is victim blaming.
Well…there you go
Context matters.
Considering context in this scenario I consider to be provocative.
I would like to know what advice you’re giving to the women of our country
I don’t believe I need to give them any advice because as a woman I have been taught since childhood that I am vulnerable and can easily be harmed by a man. Not only am I vulnerable to this harm, but I will likely be held responsible for being harmed. I challenge you to find one woman who has not received this message. Ask around. So I have no “advice” for these women that they have not heard. I only have advice for people who we usually do not have advice for and that is men. And my advice is to get help for your anger and control issues. Get help when you are in pain and feel the need to harm others. It is ok to ask for help. You are responsible for your actions. It is not your woman’s responsibility to keep you happy and secure and stop you from harming her. Get help please.
Well … that explains it all
Snr. Supt. comment on schoolgirls
http://www.guardian.co.tt/news/2017-02-10/criminals-cause-sepos-teachers-skip-classes
Good example Kirwin of where the attention always goes when “advice” is being doled out. We’re not concerned at all about why older men want to be talking to young girls, especially in uniform. Smh.
Yes we are Fayola
The endless focus on the victims (mostly women and girls) with nary a word directed at the perpetrators suggest otherwise. It suggests that we have thrown up our hands where men are concerned. Like welp men are a lost cause so no use expecting them to address their behaviour or seek help for their problems. Better to constantly tell women and girls to watch out for them, alter their own behaviour and make better choices choosing these men for whom we have no words.
I definitely agree that more needs to be done with addressing men and their (our) issues.
However, regardless of, both parties should be careful who they involve themselves with. Unfortunately, women have mainly been victims. In the context of the current situation and PM statement, it’s unfortunate to not heed this advice.
As I have said before, this is not new advice and if that is the best the PM has for us in terms of the state’s response to violence, to throw up his hands and put it on victims to choose better men, we are screwed.
In other words, I see nothing wrong with accepting the advice but in turn putting pressure on them to do more for the issues we men are having.
But to say it’s victim blaming I don’t think is fair
And you are not alone. And this is why it will continue and we will continue to ignore root causes of violence and continue to be clueless when it comes to coming up with solutions. We won’t invest in shelters, social workers and a safety net for victims. We won’t train police officers to deal with these cases better. Because aye, she shoulda make a better choice, what you want we do?
Yes Fayola, address the root cause. But what you doing in the interim ? Continue association with criminals and potential criminals?
Yes Kirwin. Exactly. I am going to go out and do exactly that. Also going to leave my door unlocked cause my PM didn’t tell me to lock it. Also going to not put gas in my tank cuz I didn’t get “advice” about that. Steups. Look if you feel the PM’s time is best spent giving grown women dating tips as a crime plan I don’t think there is anything further I can say.
Kirwin Weston, I am seriously disappointed in you, seriously eh.
Okay Fayola
For Savitri ?
For your excuses and ignorance, just make sure your car have gas eh…like Fayola said, ah just giving you some advice…ah gorn now
Okay boss, lol
Murder victims unfortunately cannot look themselves in the mirror. (cue Sugar Aloes?) The PM is under pressure and clearly not taking it well. This is a time when advisers come in handy…are there none whom the PM would trust to counsel him? I think even Carmona might have had something more sensible to say than look in the mirror ok….I really am not sure about that…but in the light of those comments, the question really is who *couldn’t* come up with something less insulting to the public. The public is understandably concerned about the PM’s feting while Rome burns so to speak, so he came out to speak, only it might have been better if he had stayed in feting mode…or home. Are we better as a country for that conversation? Considering that now everyone is looking back to see who else they can vote in, probably not. Honourable Dr. Rowley, in this season of soca and jammin still, kindly wheel and come again please.
Meanwhile, it would appear the best advice to come out of this first conversation would be from Mr. Live Wire:
“So your best chance of safety in these perilous times is to surround yourself with headless people who have no balls, cannot grasp anything happening around them and are incapable of standing on their own two feet.”
As well as, Miss Behave, the most poignantly acerbic comment on life in T&T in 2017.
“No doubt, Keithos has chosen his Cabinet wisely then.”
Bullseye! Wish I could write like that..
Today has indeed been an interesting day in the life of Trinidad and Tobago. I now have a stiff neck from the continual shaking of my head.
Media Release: PROTECTING OUR CITIZENS FROM DOMESTIC VIOLENCE
Dr. the Honourable Keith Rowley, Prime Minister of the Republic of Trinidad and Tobago at Monday’s National Conversations with the Prime Minister, made several statements on domestic violence. These statements were misinterpreted by some groups which claim that the Prime Minister blamed the victim for the heinous incident that took place on Sunday 5th February, 2016. The Prime Minister was conversing with the people and his statement has been taken out of context. He categorically rejects this interpretation of his statement.
His comments at the National Conversation were made based on the statement from the audience which lamented that domestic violence was so pervasive and happening within private spaces; in their very homes. The Prime Minister, having already responded on the various strategies to deal with violence, further advised that while he could provide protection in the wider environment for women, he could not provide such protection in the private spaces and lives.
The Prime Minister, being a father and grandfather and understanding the importance of the association we keep and our personal wellbeing offered further empowering advice to our women, by advising women that ‘you have the responsibility to determine who you associate with and know when to get out’. Prime Minister wants women to be empowered to make smart choices. The Prime Minister does not blame the victims of domestic violence but rather sympathises with the victims and the families of both the victims and the perpetrators. The Prime Minister is aware that such acts of violence are a clear signal for help by both victim and perpetrator. The Prime Minister is treating with amendments to the legislation to offer greater protection to domestic violence.
The Prime Minister has been working to push women’s issues from inception. It is because of the importance of women and child issue that he included this in his portfolio at the Office of the Prime Minister. He further assigned the responsibility to the Minister of State in his Office, to ensure that special attention is paid to resolving many specific issues affecting women gender and children.
The Office of the Prime Minister does not condone domestic violence and is doing everything possible to reduce this scourge. The Office of the Prime Minister has been working diligently to ensure that acts of domestic violence and all forms of gender based are reduced significantly or eliminated from our country by assiduously pursuing the following strategic objectives to:
• Improve the quality of life of men and women and boys and girls, at all levels of society through the promotion of gender equity and equality.
• Research and disseminate information on gender specific issues.
• Promote change in gender discriminatory social consciousness and traditions.
• Build consultative mechanisms within government, international and regional agencies, academia, Non-Governmental Organisations (NGOs) and private sector partners in advancing gender equality.
• Develop gender policies to promote the equitable advancement of women and men, and boys and girls in all spheres of development.
• Prevent, punish and eradicate gender based violence by creating the institutions and administrative structures for victims and perpetrators of gender based violence.
In order to achieve the stated objectives, the Gender Affairs Division continues to developed projects and programmes to address gender based violence and build mutual respect between men and women.
These include:
• The provision of specific programmes such as Defining Masculine Excellence and Home Management and Food Preparation for Men and Boys, Barbershop programmes;
• These programme are intended to promote gender equity by taking into account the needs of men, their perspective and expectations, as well as facilitating a level of awareness, which deconstructs the stereotyping, which take place in society;
• Support is also provided for NGOs that promote programmes with similar outcomes such as the ‘Heforshe’ campaigns;
• Continued Operation of the Domestic Hotline on a 24 hours bases; and
• The Central Registry on Domestic Violence was established in April 2016 and has been providing data to guide decision making.
The OPM is currently focusing on other plans and activities to build mutual respect among men and women and encourage behaviour modification. These include the following:
• A Community Based Action Plan to end Gender Based Violence in Trinidad and Tobago. This proposal focuses on reducing Gender Based Violence specifically violence against women and girls in communities and providing help to potential perpetrators;
• Amendments to the Domestic Violence Act to provide greater protection for victims of domestic violence;
• Strengthening the law enforcement response to violence against women through the implementation of sustained training programmes; and
• Creating safe places with the necessary services for victims of violence, both male and female.
We urge the public, victims or observers to call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 800-SAVE (7283) to report incidence of domestic and gender violence. This 24-hour hotline provides counselling services, crisis intervention and referrals to appropriate agencies such as, the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service, the Victim and Support Unit of the TTPS, the National Family Services, the Children’s Authority of Trinidad and Tobago, Lifeline or the Rape Crisis Society. Referrals can also be made for directing the victim to a place of safety or a shelter. We grieve with the public as we see this social ill destroying families, because children and close relations are sometimes caught in the domestic war.
The Office of the Prime Minister will continue our drive to advocate against domestic violence for both men and women. We will continue to build awareness and promote strategies to prevent domestic violence. Eliminating domestic and protecting victims of such remains a core outcome.
Excellent, was now going to post. But, if you are not adequately prepared to properly answer off-the-cuff questions, then they may need to revisit this idea.
Let them show a transcript to prove that he has a wide ranging discussion about domestic violence. Just PR for me.
The fact that some people in Gender Division might be doing their jobs does not exonerate the Prime Minister’s behavior.
Naturally there is no apology. The problem is with the listeners and not the speaker. As always.
In Trinidad I noticed we have a curious arrangement, the more authority one has the less accountable one automatically becomes. This is one such example.
This, Mr PM, is mere bullying.
You can’t MAKE me believe what you tell me you meant after you have said what you said to me. Oh, you sure can try with all the resources at your disposal – call out all the spin doctors on your payroll if you will – but it ain’t gonna work. I looked you in the eye on TV on Monday evening and I know what you were thinking then, BEFORE the PR people got to work on you.
And ultimately, that is what matters, what is in your heart, not what is in your media release.
Lol. If is one thing I leaning from the Trump administration is to “fact check ” EVERYTHING. Just because they say so doesn’t mean he said whatever
You could only fact check what someone says, not what someone means.
Haha ..so true Vern!
My argument for the PM is this:
The Prime Minister was building the sound case of the sorry state of affairs within the police service where the Detection Rate is abysmally poor. He hinged his statements to those of the Min. Nat. Security who had previously said that proper policing was built on the pillars of Prevention, Deterrence, Investigation, Detection and Prosecution .
The PM in this context was referring to the record number of murders in January this year and he was saying that 1/3 of those murders were domestic related. There would be an additional unnecessary burden on the police service who already lack the detection capability with situations that CANNOT BE PREVENTED (because obviously it is domestic and private). The Prime Minister in this context was offering common sense advice of prevention. That was SERIOUSLY manipulated by the press and feminist groups.
The issue, Paul, is that it is always going to be. When have the local media opted to focus their REPORTAGE (as distinct from the commentary) on the issue at the expense of the attention-grabber? When? Maybe in the pre-expansion days of the 1980’s…
And if you’re the PM talking essentially to the nation, that has to be factored in, does it not? But the current PM does no work and not possessed of the facts, he often shoots off at the mouth before he realises what the possible consequences are. We have had many examples of that since September 2015. Monday evening was but one more.
And rest assured that there are many more still to come.
This. So good
Thanks Ria. ☺️
At least you get it. Your fellow men were starting to scare me there for a minute. Don’t defend the indefensible
I feel like there is a mental block there on that issue. Not sure what it will take to move it.
Ria Mohammed-Davidson…you were concerned about the men? I am concerned about the women defending such a statement. I have been reading the comments on other pages, and the support is scary! In Trinidad, we are our sister’s keeper only applies if it relates to defending our fellow women against Trump, it seems.
Y does he look like like an ass
Wait he is an ass
Yes ic one Kathleen
Is ur mother
Yes ic one Kathleen
Is ur mother
Yes ic one Kathleen
Is ur mother
Yes ic one Kathleen
Is ur mother
Wait sorry bout that
I don’t want to belittle myself like u Kathleen
Ah damn idiot Indian again eh! Steupsssssssss!
You are already stuck under the white line on the road Mr idiot.. That’s your depth. You must be ashamed of your mother, she produced a poor apology for a human being. That’s what you get when you cross an ass with a roberto. Tee hee hee.
Good morning Mr Kirk R TC Walker. Howdy?
A very pleasant morning to you my sister Kathleen Vanderpool. I AM good.
Kathleen like u talking from experience
Kathleen like u talking from experience
An kirk ur a pussy
Many are commenting on the statement , without hearing it themselves in the first , and just following on what others might have said. If one followed the train of thought , he was commenting on the different ways in which a government can help , spoke about protection orders and the like , and then he mentioned that he cannot get into someone’s bedroom or make a decision for them. Simply put , the private decisions made by couples cannot be legislated. Researchers have found that for every twenty odd instances of abuse , only one is reported. This is a startling statistic. If a woman has made a bad decision , and becomes the subject of abuse , then the onus rest upon her with the appropriate support system , to be encouraged to report the abuse and see the perpetrator brought to justice. There are many cases where the victim through intimidation , has gone back on their initial report and eventually dropped charges. This results in almost certain recurrence of the atrocity. The woman has got to be encouraged , as the old people say , to ” measure twice and cut once” when choosing a partner. At the first sign of the propensity for violence of any kind , a report has to be made and a decision made. What was said by the PM was an admonition from a parent and father to the woman who may find herself in an undesirable situation. That she must never feel that she’s in an irreversible situation. Just as the decision was made among consenting , adult parties , a reversal can also be made.
Sheep just love to go with the flock. No independent analysis and conclusion.
Because some women do so is no reason to make a broad statement that is insulting those women who do act and are killed by their exes.
And it is the government’s role to ensure the law is followed. Not to give dating tips.
But you’re free to your opinion. The sheep jibe is ironic and funny though.
Chevaughn, I don’t think the issue is whether what the PM said is accurate, to which your entire comment speaks. What I think critics have said and are saying is either that it is not APPROPRIATE or that it is not appropriate in that forum.
Can you seriously argue with that?
Besides, if it is true, as every linguist knows, that meaning is made at the receiving end, is the message what he intended or what people took from it?
The live audience’s immediate reaction was laughter and lusty applause, I remind you. What construction do you think they put on the comment, context and all?
Let Faris and the PM’s Office answer that.
Lasana Liburd I really can’t believe you have a problem with the PM statement?,I for one don’t believe that they are doing enough to deter criminals from committing there act,but I found nothing wrong with that particular speech that he made.
It’s not what he said, it’s how he said it….he is the PM after all. The man speaks as if he is the almighty himself.
Zelus Williams the man was in the hometown of a woman who was just murdered–allegedly by an ex–and hinting that such victims of domestic abuse are partially responsible for their own fate. Based on what evidence?
It is not that the statement taken by itself is bad. It is the context in which the statement was made.
Zelus for instance… do you remember the family that was killed when their vehicle was struck in the pbr by a speeding drunk driver?
What about if you went to the funeral and said it is irresponsible for drivers to not be mindful of what other drivers are doing too?
Now that would be an accurate statement on its own. But in the context of that accident: would it be right or appropriate?
Lasana Liburd understands where you are coming from.
People are just like machel says stink and duty .Not that they don’t understand the PM statement but it’s bash Rowley time wha he say de? Slam him bash him say anything that is a continuance of the no Rowley campain you ppl are so sick you all should live in a mental hospital these women groups pick their cases to be outrage convienantly don’t you all know by now that nice good looking girls like stupid man? Their families can attest to this you always here them say .I told her to leave da man alone or I warned her about that boy. But do they listen?no look at miss Sims ,ask her mom what she told her daughter before she got killed, look ppl don’t play ass for me eh,everybody is responsible for the choices they make and they got to live by it .why no hue and cry for the man who get gun down yesterday by a bommy security cause the owner know the man is a ex jailer refuse to sell the man and then the security made sure he won’t be a problem in the future but no protest but if while pumping 3 shots into the victim one had missed and hit some prominent person child and killed them that same security would be facing murder charges now even if you don’t want the man in your place which is your right why didn’t you not allow the security to purchase the item for him thereby quelling the situation as I say the choices we make always comes with consequences may it be good or bad the pm has said nothing wrong just as Tim keep had said nothing wrong either it’s just people twist and distort things to suit their political agenda using the media and these fake ass groups but if this is the way certain ppl want to go maybe I can go into the body bag business just saying. Smh.
“Comments were taken out of context!” – office of the PM.
Hilarious. It is Rowley’s failure to appreciate context that caused the problem in the first place.
And that is being kind and not assuming that he was trying to deflect from the government’s failure to address crime.
Lasana, not withstanding the economic factors, what is your take on the impact a state of emergency will have on the current state of crime. Will it be an ‘abject failure’ as the last time as our PM put it
I don’t think a state of emergency will have any impact whatsoever because it isn’t a crime fighting measure. It will affect the freedom of movement of everyone, including criminals.
And, when it ends, things will return to their previous state.
Lasana Liburd…I think people are asking for an SoE just for some immediate relief. The last SoE worked in reducing crime, it just moved to different places and at different times. The problem with it was the manner in which it was carried out. I would hope if/when such a measure is used, that other long term measures are also put in place. We need to take drastic action for immediate relief, but ensure long term workable measures are put in place. Nothing less is adequate right now.
For me a SoE is not a solution. It is an admission that the government has no solution.
If that is all they have, then let us sit and start this country over from scratch starting with the constitution.
Dissolve Parliament and create a framework for the people to decide on how we move forward.
Both parties would have taken us as far as they can.
Ah, ah ah! Freudian slip, my brother. “Both parties”? The COP and the MSJ and Duke’s pick-up side and Christlyn’s 2nd XI and Job Davis’ non-starters and the sundry other aggregations that mushroom at the approach of an election, you completely disregard them all? Dustbin fuh dem?
Tut tut, Mr Editor, tut tut!
Ahm…So we putting the future of the country in the President’s hands? Lol.
Peter, there are those who say behind their hands that that is a typo. Three letters too many.
Me? I have no comment of my own to make.
Donald Trump of Trinidad
Realty hurts
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/07/putin-approves-change-to-law-decriminalising-domestic-violence?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Wow…different cultures
Coming soon to the USA
Putin and Trump… Brothers from different mothers.
Lasana Liburd…we forget Snowden in Russia? Wonder what, if any, secrets they may now have? And Obama did not pardon him although there was a petition to do so recently.
Lol..y’all sick …only negative we can focus on lol
This is what drives a Trini, negative, so clear to see how many stupid people we live among, fb just made us see first hand
I am sorry for Rowley. The problems are legion and the incompetents with whom he surrounded himself look to him for answers which he simply does not have. All the time he spent in opposition was spent, as Ralph Maharaj keeps saying, not working to get prepared for government but waiting to get his hands on the government.
We’re doomed, people. Put this in your pipe and smoke it: we made the RIGHT choice in 2015, of that there can be no doubt.
So when did we make the wrong choice? In 2010, of course. The rut started, you might say, when we choice the Rott over his predecessor.
And we’re reaping the whirlwind.
Lasana you have patience like Job and guts like a calabash to keep that exchange going for so long. We in deep if this is a prevailing view
Lol
Liburd, How do you stay out of jail, boy? There has to be a law that allows them to put your a… behind bars fuh much less than this.
But truth be told, I hope they don’t find it.
As do, I suspect, thousands of women out there.
In this country, the victim is always to blame… Man murdered = must have been involved in a gang/drugs/etc. Woman murdered = she encouraged it by dressing wrong/being in a relationship with the wrong kind of man etc. etc.
Best I start killing people, because apparently killers are the only ones NOT responsible for their actions…
will do you one better. long time now i want to start killing people. and i am willing to get paid for it. on contract. on retainer. on assignment. with degrees
That’s true. Whenever they say drug related or person known to police, we know what they are implying. And we can only take their word for it most times.
Its crazy that we literally hold our breath when we read the news – as soon as we’ve justified why the person DESERVED their death, then we can relax and go back to life as normal… #wejamminstill
Natalia Dopwell…that is the problem I have. We try to justify the unjustifiable! Because in our minds, life has to make sense. Some old people who don’t know better try to teach us about consequences. Thus leaving us poorly prepared for this society we have been thrust in, where we still wait in vain hope for people to do their jobs-deal with the criminal element (white collars and violent criminals) and return us to our mental comfort zone.
It kinda makes sense if you don’t think about it.
Lol. Unfortunately for most educated adults, life need to make some kinda sense lol.
question. why if there is murder, 2/3rds are ignored but the 1/3 is focused and the women signaled out to blame and responsible. how that work> who does that? . does that constitute misogyny. ?
Are the other victims not to blame??
why are you all letting rowley define/redefine/deny truths? change the conversation?
So now not the govt is responsible for their jobs but women for allowing and causing crime??? did i get that right. at least one thirds of the murder???
A perfect piece of satire to describe how we women feel after being abused by our Prime Minister last night. Helpful tips.
Just forget it.
Let people date who they want…parents just forget about nurturing your girls or boys not to associate with people who have criminal tendencies.
Just do what you want T&T…be happy!
If you and your loved ones can tell not only everyone who HAS criminal tendencies but also everyone who WILL have criminal tendencies, then you have a special gift Kirwin.
Fact is, courses in public speaking teach you to identify your audience. Keep in mind the position of the person speaking the head of the national security council (if that still exists?) on a public, televised forum on a topic of crime-violent and in a public space-and that is the insensitive, ineffective response to said question. And we okay with letting it slide? Or defending it?
The point is some situations are avoidable and some situations are almost evident.
The call is to control and stunt the almost evident ones,
Lasana you can’t tell someone who has abusive or criminal tendencies ?
Lasana Liburd well said. We criminalise actions not thoughts!
Note the word “everyone” Kirwin. What signs of abusive tendencies did the MovieTowne killer show?
Can you state what displays of anger lead to murder and which ones don’t?
If you are speaking without information and in broad terms, as the Prime Minister was, what do you think would be a sensible way of approaching that topic?
Lasana Liburd, what I don’t understand about that situation, the woman was at work. The guy came on the premises and then incident took place. He working in a food place to be walking around with a weapon? Because ‘domestic’ to me implies in your home-in the heat of the moment. If you leave home with a weapon to carry out this violent act, then it’s downright murder!
Let’s just say, for argument’s sake, that there are cases where women recklessly put themselves into harm’s way Kirwin.
What about the cases when the victims did no such thing and are now rightfully insulted by the PM’s stance?
Are they collateral damage in the PM’s war against those “reckless” victims of domestic violence?
And the woman went outside because he was bringing her car back for her.
Lasana it is impossible to tell everyone.
But there are situations that can be avoided.
Would you allow or encourage a loved one to continue a relationship with someone who interacts with drugs and ammunition or constantly uses abusive language ?
Kirwin, did the Prime Minister not making a general sweeping statement about domestic violence?
You don’t think that criminals or people capable of causing serious bodily harm (worse case murder) have very similar traits and behavior ?
Clearly you’re a criminologist. Do you think that all abusers can be identified by a checklist Kirwin? Has that checklist been circulated?
Have all victims of domestic violence this year been cases where women failed to observe said list?
Just what are you basing your stance on exactly?
Lasana I said earlier not all situations are the same, some situations are controllable and avoidable but some of the victims refuse to get out…eventually leading to their sad demise
Will you watch a loved female of yours constantly associate with someone who has criminal tendencies ?
I did not say all Lasana. Not all situations are the same.
There are obvious avoidable one’s where people simply not being smart.
And that is not a gender specific comment.
If the PM-as head of security council-had used the opportunity to express empathy, and offered sound advice to victims or potential victims on programmes, polices and measures to assist, he would have come out smelling roses. But clearly his incompetence is becoming more and more apparent. He should review the manifesto on crime. There is still time to get working. Keep in mind the public is becoming increasingly frustrated by growing violence, where we feel like our women are under attack.
You don’t berate all because of a few Kirwin. That’s one. Second, I would give my loved one my opinion on her partner. But that doesn’t make her an accessory to her own murder though.
When you speak about criminal tendencies, you must have a very narrow idea of what that is. We have people with criminal tendencies from the President’s house come down.
Think you pretending to not know what I mean.
If you can’t tell a situation is dangerous and you should avoid or get out of it for your own good…I’m sorry for you my friend.
If you think you can always spot a potential killer and that persons are bear some responsibility for their own murders…
Like I said, if you know how to tell someone with current AND future criminal tendencies, I hope you share it with the group.
But the PM’s statement is practically the definition of victim blaming.
What we need to be doing Kirwin is making this place intolerable for domestic abusers. Not trying to blame victims. Who does that help?
Will that encourage more women to speak up or less? What you do know about the lengths many go to so as to avoid harm and still end up hurt or killed?
You can’t just speak on a haunch here.
I don’t think it’s blaming victims, I think it’s asking people to be smart.
Secondly I agree measures should be put in place to make domestic violence intolerable but in the interim what is going to be done ? That will take years to happen.
And if you think people who have potential to commit criminal acts like murders l, use of drugs and drug trafficking, burglary, kidnapping etc don’t share similar traits and behaviour it doesn’t make sense we continue debating
Lasana, again, some situations are definitely unavoidable but some are avoidable
why all this long talk and thread.
ehnt rowley bellowed his way, rough up, yelled, crassed, offended, was in the gutter, talk about women body parts and cyat and who dog, and what else and you all STILL chose that man. He is the first chosen of all men chosen, by women and men???
so what it is?
what more again?
and in case you dont know all that IS VIOLENCE eh.
everything is a continuum
talk about spying violent tendencies.
Whew
Kirwin, it is really laughable to think that violent people can be spotted as easily as a drug pusher. You tend to spot violent people when they commit violent acts and that is often too late.
So Rowley, as Prime Minister, was speaking only to women who were involved in avoidable risky relationships?
Think about what you are saying a little yes Kirwin.
Lasana, if you can’t observe and connect behaviour then you yourself may be a victim of that type of behaviour.
I’ve said it more than once. Not all situations are the same but there are the avoidable situations.
If you can state that violent people are only spotted when they commit violent acts that is a very sad situation. Because you’re saying is absolutely no sign prior to that this person could be violent…I think that’s pretty naive
Awareness = avoidance
I look for what I get then Kirwin.
If you did the eulogy for the family killed at the pbr in the vehicular accident, you might state that drivers need to be mindful and look both ways–even when they have the green light–to prevent themselves from being killed.
And then you will stand your ground based on anecdotal evidence.
People who know why that message might be inappropriate on THAT day in THAT funeral would understand the point I’m making.
Lasana the victim was in an unavoidable situation there…nothing much they could’ve done to not be a victim…she did not have much input into the outcome
And what about in MovieTowne? The PM spoke right after her murder. Her death was on everyone’s lips.
Does she bear responsibility for her own murder? Did she deserve a dose of victim shaming?
Lasana yuh mixing oil and water.
No one deserves to be murdered.
But you have a responsibility to yourself to protect yourself.
Rowley spoke to the responsibility of the victim… Meanwhile the murderer just walked out of MovieTowne and is at large…
I think it is a matter of courtesy and understanding the power and context of addresses made by the Prime Minister.
A young woman’s throat is slit and he stands up and lectures women about taking responsibility for who they let into their bedroom.
So what is his message there to Jamilia?
You take from that what you will Kirwin. I know what I took from it.
Kirwin Weston..absolute agree that we should take responsibility for our actions. But unfortunately Jamila is not here to make a different choice. And women can only act with information at hand and with the resources available. But the issue is time and place. And in his position as head of security council. At any other time, we may have been able to say good advice. Not the day after such a gruesome incident.
Is like the day after flugtag and I attend a funeral for one of the drowned victims and say, but they shoulda know if they can’t swim not to go on a overloaded boat. What use that advice is then? The solution is to put policies in place, educate ppland enforce legislation.
Lasana so what you suggest ? What is your advice to women of the nation ?
Nerisha I totally understand where you coming from, but this should’ve been said a long time ago.
Either way there are women out there who needs to hear it.
Rather than be hypersensitive about the statement, people should grasp the true meaning of the statement which is to protect yourself.
One way to protect yourself is not to indulge or remain in abusive or potentially abusive situations.
How do you know that the majority of the victims were not killed by their exes Kirwin? That would suggest that they did leave the relationship.
Like I said your stance must be based on more than idle talk. And I don’t think Rowley considered any data or spoke to the relevant counsellors before speaking either.
Advice to women is practically worthless if you are not doing everything in your power to make things intolerable for abusers. What has Rowley done?
You want me to tell the women to try not to get beat up or killed? These are adults star. You don’t get the condescension here?
Women are being killed and looking for support and you’re asking about the appropriate lecture for them?
It is just addressing the issue from the wrong end. It’s not about women being stupid or smart but about the law doing its job.
And I doubt you can say that in even the majority of cases the women were stupid and the law did its job.
Killed by exes Lasana ?
Come on, let’s not get naive, we all know how it goes down in T&T.
I don’t think the advice is worthless.
Legislation or not, a certain level of responsibility is on the individual to avoid dangerous scenarios and relationships.
Legislation present and a man kill a woman…the victim still dead, no legislation and murder takes place, victim still dead. Then what…anyhow you twist it…choose yuh men wisely.
And ah don’t mean you eh =D =D =D
Lol. So if a woman finds out a man has violent tendencies and leaves him and he kills her anyway, then she is responsible for not leaving sooner?
Kirwin, this is nothing but a politician trying to avoid responsibility. Do you think Rowley would have made the same speech if he was Opposition Leader?
Political or not is null to me.
My position is nothing is wrong with the statement.
Context is everything. And I say because of that context there is plenty wrong with it.
I don’t see it as put of context…
What do you mean? The context I refer would the recent murders allegedly committed by persons who once had a relationship with the victim. And, in particular, Jamilia who was killed two days ago.
In that context, Rowley was out of place to suggest that the victim bears responsibility for possibly once letting the alleged killer into her bedroom.
The context is women in general need to wake up and smell the coffee…and yes victims have a responsibility unto themselves.
You go do bungee jumping and fall off then blame the park for your injuries na
As I said not all situations are avoidable but some definitely are
You are comparing bungee jumping to entering a relationship. And yet you don’t appreciate what that comparison really means for women and their vulnerability.
One day, we will get to where we all agree that there is no excuse for men to abuse women and have no doubt as to the only guilty party in cases of domestic abuse.
Yes it is comparable because they’re both risky situations.
I do not condone violence against anyone, and no way I believe women deserve that treatment
All I’m saying is be wise and avoid situations where you put yourself at risk
And I’m saying if you think they both bear comparable risk then that says a lot about the issue we should really be addressing. And it is not the behavior of the women.
Yuh loss meh
What’s your advice to our nation’s women Lasana ?
Lasana Liburd…as a man, Kerwin may not understand the vulnerabilities of women. We cannot ignore the psyche of women who grow up in abusive homes who subconsciously repeat those mistakes, or who may not even believe they are worthy of healthy, non-abusive relationships.
My problem is there are women who agree with his statement. And we both understand and agree it’s about context, time and position-he is the PM and head of the security council saying this the day after a public and gruesome murder.
As I said on another post, to put it in perspective Kirwin Weston, if such a question is asked, the response is worthy of an infant rather than a university graduate. Any normal human being would express empathy with families who are victims of crime, not blame them.
@lasana Liburd, do you recall the letter sent asking young ppl to please desist from crime? How’s that working out for him? Does the country have faith in this man to deal with the crime situation given these incidents?
There is no us and them. I won’t feel it necessary to tell you as a grown man to take care of yourself and I don’t see the need to lecture grown women about the obvious either.
My advice to our nation’s women is to reject insincere patronizing.
What letter Nerisha? Calling them monsters?
Can you expand on insincere patronizing Lasana ?
Lasana Liburd…I can’t recall if it was a letter or press release, to be honest, but basically calling on young people to turn away from crime. If I remember correctly, it was just after the young schoogirl was found.
Again Nerisha, it is not blaming.
And yes I understand some of the complications about the vulnerabilities of women.
All I’m saying is that some situations are avoidable
Lasana you won’t see the need because we (men) aren’t the victims most times for this type of abuse
Ok Nerisha. I can’t remember it. Kirwin you said a message for the women not the men. So don’t worry if you don’t understand. Lol.
And a media colleague broke up with a girlfriend last year and she snuck into his apartment with a knife and a stated intention to carve him up. Thankfully his neighbor alerted him.
The Prime Minister would no doubt have said that he has to take responsibility for who he let into his bedroom too.
Or does Rowley only care about women’s bedrooms? Lol.
Anyway that message was for women. My message for you would be different! ?
I think you all are being unecssarily provocative about the statement.
Women are the victims for most part
What do you mean by saying women should reject insincere patronizing Lasana ?
Kirwin how am I being provocative?
By focusing on context
I ask again if you can expand on insincere patronizing ?
Lasana Liburd…at the risk of provoking, in light of these statements being made in the last few months, I wonder if ppl are revisiting a story of alleged harassment? It does seem he is preoccupied with ppp’s bedrooms lol.
I think context is imperative. Always. All adults act based on circumstances and don’t just do what we feel like.
I don’t think I need to explain insincere patronizing further. Check the context in which it was said. ?
Hmmm, that says it all Lasana
I’ll take that as an avoidance tactics Lasana, lol
I never avoid. Some things are just bleeding obvious. If you don’t know who is doing the insincere patronizing then you won’t get it even if I told you…
Ok boss
while i think boys need to be socialized differently and the message needs to be to tell men to not rape or abuse women…
but yuh see this.see this? “If as woman you are going to meet/in a relationship with a man and you have to do it on the DL because you KNOW if you tell your friends/family they will ask you if you’re insane…. #CheckYuhself #DohBeDotish” It is a VERY real happenstance outchea this rounds eh…so I’ll repeat #CheckYuhsel #DohBeDotish
Thank you. His stance on the government providing security and infrastructure for its citizens makes me wonder…what is the government there for? Clearly, more people need to sign the petition going around calling for his removal. After 16 months plus, he still does not grasp his role as PM. Maybe he should take a minute and read-only I did not say re-read!-the manifesto.
But, his statement is achieving its purpose. Ppl forget escalating crime to focus on his statement.